I have 2 of the eco-worthy fitted in my van. 
John.
John.
Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?
- Thread starter Dellmassive
- Start date
He's in the US so by 29 he means 29 Farenheit - which is -1.5 Celsiushmmm. . . . that dont look good. (EcoWorthy 100Ah)
Lifepo4s dont like high temps. - but something else must have been going on here?
im think over charge or over discharge,
View attachment 225373
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Off Grid DIY Solar, Wind, Hydro, Battery, Powerwall & EV | Independent 12v for shurflow pump | Facebook
Independent 12v for shurflow pump. Almost lasted a year. All I can think is it was 29 this morning when first light hit the panelwww.facebook.com
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Don't try and bulk charge lithium cells below freezing folks, it's not best practise it's safety advice...
In depth explanation here, but the simplified form is that below freezing instead of moving Lithium Ions in the battery you actually start to plate metallic lithium on one of the plates and this forms a spike. Small spikes may later puncture the cells from vibration, large spikes will instantly short the cell and dump it's energy in one massive heat event likely igniting the lithium as well causing other cells to burst.
Don't charge lithium cells when it's freezing, ever. Once formed those spikes do not recombine - the cell with the spikes is now a time bomb. Even if you think you got away with it just picture those foil pouches of lithium under your bottom but now with microscopic drawing pins in as you bounce down the potholed road...
Did I mention i bought a ECO-Worthy Lifepo4?
this was OCT/NOV 2023. . . . but looks like i missed doing the post?
100Ah 12.8v
this was OCT/NOV 2023. . . . but looks like i missed doing the post?
100Ah 12.8v
Just going through my conversion and cataloguing all the electrical components. Pleased to see all the charging components are Victron and the inverter is Renology (both respected names that are often recommended on the forum), but was surprised/disappointed to see the converter had used used 2x Tanya LN Power 110A LiFePO4 batteries. Was hoping they'd used one of the well-known battery brands, but never heard of Tanya LN Power. Anyone heard of them/ used them? Are they any good?
If it's Tanya as in the battery suppliers they're reasonably well known and from the price they don't seem cheap options...
www.tayna.co.uk
I think the data sheet is here
TN POWER Lithium Leisure Batteries - Leisure Batteries
Tayna Batteries supply all types of Leisure Batteries. Browse our full range of TN POWER Lithium Leisure Batteries here. We aim to be the cheapest supplier of TN POWER Lithium Leisure Batteries in the UK.
www.tayna.co.uk
I think the data sheet is here
Thanks @roadtripper - yes, I meant Tayna not TanyaIf it's Tanya as in the battery suppliers they're reasonably well known and from the price they don't seem cheap options...
TN POWER Lithium Leisure Batteries - Leisure Batteries
Tayna Batteries supply all types of Leisure Batteries. Browse our full range of TN POWER Lithium Leisure Batteries here. We aim to be the cheapest supplier of TN POWER Lithium Leisure Batteries in the UK.
I think the data sheet is here
- my lysdexia must be flaring-up!!! 
Not good pics, but here we go...
Charged with...
))…
Charged with...
- 300W flexible PV panel (brand - TBD)
- Victron Energy SmartSolar MPPT 75|15 Charge Controller
- Victron Energy Orion-Tr Smart 12|12-30 (360/430W) Non-isolated
- Victron Energy Blue Smart 12|15 (1) [IP22 - Rev?]
- 3x dimmable LED Spots (kitchen)
- 4x dimmable LED Spots (tailgate)
- 3x LED Spots (pop-top)
- 2x LED white strip lights
- RGB LED strip mood-lighting
- Mobile phone charging
- Webasto compressor fridge (49L Marine drawer)
- Electric R&R bed
))…- Fohen hot water boiler (power rating TBD - user manual is next to useless!)
- Tablet / laptop charging (65W)
- Portable induction hob (variable, max 2.1KW)
- Air fryer (1.3 KW)
- Domestic toaster (power rating TBD
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3kw inverter from two 110Ah lifepo 4 batteries might be optimistic?
More a case of the inverter being overrated for what we need, rather than the battery bank being underrated. SOC not yet been below 75%.
I don't think that there is anything wrong with TN Power batteries. I've been using them for 3 years on my caravan and they have the basic BMS protections that you would expect expect from a decent lifepo4 battery.Not good pics, but here we go...
View attachment 226150View attachment 226152 View attachment 226151
Charged with...
12v loads...
- 300W flexible PV panel (brand - TBD)
- Victron Energy SmartSolar MPPT 75|15 Charge Controller
- Victron Energy Orion-Tr Smart 12|12-30 (360/430W) Non-isolated
- Victron Energy Blue Smart 12|15 (1)
240v loads (Renogy 3000W PSW inverter for off-grid use (that I just discovered is surge rated to 6000W
- 3x dimmable LED Spots (kitchen)
- 4x dimmable LED Spots (tailgate)
- 3x LED Spots (pop-top)
- 2x LED white strip lights
- RGB LED strip mood-lighting
- Mobile phone charging
- Webasto compressor fridge (49L Marine drawer)
- Electric R&R bed
- Fohen hot water boiler (power rating TBD - user manual is next to useless!)
- Tablet / laptop charging (65W)
- Portable induction hob (variable, max 2.1KW)
- Air fryer (1.3 KW)
They were cheap and someone may come along and criticise them, but I've been quite happy with the way that they've performed over the last three years.
That's good to hear @Samro, thanks. Given the other quality components I would have been surprised if they weren't at least decent-ish.
I seem to remember the forum trade installer guy .. edit: @travelvolts . Started to fit them for a while.
Basic BMS yes. But no "low temp charge protection".
Similar to the Eco-worthy.
Ok batteries, but you must ensure your charge sources have low temp lithium charge blocking.... To disable charge near or below 0c.
It's an easy Job to swap them out for a more modern battery, with low temp protection or even a heated version.
Basic BMS yes. But no "low temp charge protection".
Similar to the Eco-worthy.
Ok batteries, but you must ensure your charge sources have low temp lithium charge blocking.... To disable charge near or below 0c.
It's an easy Job to swap them out for a more modern battery, with low temp protection or even a heated version.
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What caught my eye in the data sheet is the aging graph. We often state that Lithium you can use all the capacity but there is a lifetime cost. Look at the large difference, double the lifetime, if you aim to charge at 20% capacity (as used by Clayton) and the dramatic difference, over triple the lifetime, if you charge at 50% like an AGM:
For van batteries the increase may not be significant given how infrequently they are cycled but it's really worth keeping mind for things like phones and tablets that are cycled everyday.
You can also see why Clayton (with a sealed battery pack) choose to do what they do. Those of you using similar sealed power pack systems might want to keep that in mind too.
For van batteries the increase may not be significant given how infrequently they are cycled but it's really worth keeping mind for things like phones and tablets that are cycled everyday.
You can also see why Clayton (with a sealed battery pack) choose to do what they do. Those of you using similar sealed power pack systems might want to keep that in mind too.
Yep...
The charts are all very similar for lifepo4 cells.
Not so for NMC cells, but they are being phased out now.
The 10yr lifepo4 thing comes from 365 days a year running the battery down 80% (100 to 20% SoC) (so 20% SoC remaining)... Every single day, for 10yrs!!!..... That is absolutely amazing to me, that you can do that.
4000cycl ÷ 365days = 10.9years.
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So realistically these batteries will outlast the van usage.... I recon they will last 20years with occasional recreational use.
Even my oldest lithiums are still showing 99% SoH
A great investment.... But as with everything, manufacturering volume goes up and unit price comes down.... We're in the £300-400 range now.
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The lifepo4 80% DoD is now an accepted industry standard...
Our domestic solar setup uses 48v lifepo4 cells.... And they are also set by the manufacturer/s (inverter and battery manufacturer) to use 80%, ie run down to 20% every single day.
The 20% low limit is a soft limit that can be pushed.
Running them down to below 10% start triggering all sorts of alarms... Low SoC, low pack voltage. Low cell voltage... Etc etc.
So 100% down to 20% is best.
100% down to 40% is better.
The easy rule is to look at charging when every you can when below 50% SoC.
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...
The charts are all very similar for lifepo4 cells.
Not so for NMC cells, but they are being phased out now.
The 10yr lifepo4 thing comes from 365 days a year running the battery down 80% (100 to 20% SoC) (so 20% SoC remaining)... Every single day, for 10yrs!!!..... That is absolutely amazing to me, that you can do that.
4000cycl ÷ 365days = 10.9years.
...
So realistically these batteries will outlast the van usage.... I recon they will last 20years with occasional recreational use.
Even my oldest lithiums are still showing 99% SoH
A great investment.... But as with everything, manufacturering volume goes up and unit price comes down.... We're in the £300-400 range now.
...
The lifepo4 80% DoD is now an accepted industry standard...
Our domestic solar setup uses 48v lifepo4 cells.... And they are also set by the manufacturer/s (inverter and battery manufacturer) to use 80%, ie run down to 20% every single day.
The 20% low limit is a soft limit that can be pushed.
Running them down to below 10% start triggering all sorts of alarms... Low SoC, low pack voltage. Low cell voltage... Etc etc.
So 100% down to 20% is best.
100% down to 40% is better.
The easy rule is to look at charging when every you can when below 50% SoC.
...
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Yes, I noticed that from the info @roadtripper referenced, but I'm not aware of anything that would prevent charging below 0C.
Throughout this latest cold spell (with local, overnight lows of -6C), the van has been sat on the driveway - no EHU and obviously no DC/DC input. The fridge is off, but the door is open (to stop mould forming), so there are 4 small, blue LEDs that are lit 24/7. This small load causes SOC to fall to ~98% overnight and this is then restored to 100% during the day via solar.
If battery temp was below 0C during the day, is this small amount of solar charging likely to damage the batteries? Are we talking reduced capacity, reduced life expectancy or a completely shagged battery?
The Victron MPPT will thave low temp. (Assuming the unit is fitted in the van to detect the temp occasionally
.........
The IP65 charger doesn't show low temp protection.
........
Orion dc-dc doesn't show any low temp protection.
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The IP65 charger doesn't show low temp protection.
........
Orion dc-dc doesn't show any low temp protection.
The new Vic Orion xs dc-dc charger does have low temp protection......
See here....
[Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --
So for you case @Bav the easiest option is just to upgrade those two batteries.
for.ones that have low temp protection or built in heaters.....
Ie
Renogy.
roamer.
Fogstar.
Poweroad.
Etc etc.
Or.
Just switch off the batterys if.its going to be cold.
If it was me..
I'd replace the batterys and sell those onwards.
See here....
[Guide] DC-DC Charger (for leisure battery) -- How I Done It --
So for you case @Bav the easiest option is just to upgrade those two batteries.
for.ones that have low temp protection or built in heaters.....
Ie
Renogy.
roamer.
Fogstar.
Poweroad.
Etc etc.
Or.
Just switch off the batterys if.its going to be cold.
If it was me..
I'd replace the batterys and sell those onwards.
That TN spec sheet clearly states no charging below 0degc.
But you can discharge it down to -20c.
But you can discharge it down to -20c.
It's potentially dangerous, see my post here and then scroll up to see the battery. I strongly suspect this was solar charging below freezing.
Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?
I have 2 of the eco-worthy fitted in my van. :eek: John.
Theoretically very slow trickle charging is OK but given the risk I would stick to don't charge.
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