Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

[Bav]

The Victron MPPT will thave low temp. (Assuming the unit is fitted in the van to detect the temp occasionally

View attachment 226218View attachment 226219

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The IP65 charger doesn't show low temp protection.
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Orion dc-dc doesn't show any low temp protection.

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Thanks @Dellmassive.

To be fair, it's the solar charging I was most worried about - as fair weather campers, we won't be on hook-up in sub-zero external temps (let alone sub-zero temps in the van! ) and I can always pre-heat the internals with the onboard heater if we're out & about in the cold.

Also, thinking about it, the screen we have for monitoring SOC/water/LPG levels has a screen specifically showing a graph of battery temps over time - so it must be set up to detect/record and [hopefully] act on battery temps.

 

[Ayjay]

I think it's time for my first idiot questions of the new year. Probably not unsurprisingly, my Renogy Smart 100Ah battery has gone into low temperature mode and stopped charging. I first looked at it on the DC Home app on Thursday afternoon and then yesterday and today and a screen shot of each is below. Two questions please and thanks in anticipation for any advice:

At what sort of temperature could I expect charging to restart? I note that clicking on the orange bar at the top advises to heat the battery up to 'room temperature' but would have expected charging to kick in well before then.​

Does anyone know what Error 9 is about please? Google didn't help and I'm assuming it's something to do with low temperature but.....​

​

 

[Dellmassive]

Same...

I have a Eco-worthy in the solar shed... That's charged via solar..... So for now I've switched on the lithium low temp in the Vic mppt, that should block charge below 5c. But the MPPT temp update is once a day apparently. Ie it's not a live sampled temp reading.

I tried finding out years ago when and how often the temp was read... In the Vic mppt s.

In the end I got a Victron battery voltage, temp sensor and added it to the local Victron network.

But I may still just pull the Eco-worthy out the shed until the temps rise in March.

 

[Dellmassive]

I think it's time for my first idiot questions of the new year. Probably not unsurprisingly, my Renogy Smart 100Ah battery has gone into low temperature mode and stopped charging. I first looked at it on the DC Home app on Thursday afternoon and then yesterday and today and a screen shot of each is below. Two questions please and thanks in anticipation for any advice:

At what sort of temperature could I expect charging to restart? I note that clicking on the orange bar at the top advises to heat the battery up to 'room temperature' but would have expected charging to kick in well before then.​

Does anyone know what Error 9 is about please? Google didn't help and I'm assuming it's something to do with low temperature but.....​

​

View attachment 226224
View attachment 226225
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Low temp protection kicks in at 0c.

And released at +5c.

It's detailed in the user guide.

https://www.renogy.com/content/RBT100LFP12S-G1/LFP100S-Manual.pdf

...





....

 

[Samro]

Yes, I noticed that from the info @roadtripper referenced, but I'm not aware of anything that would prevent charging below 0C.

Throughout this latest cold spell (with local, overnight lows of -6C), the van has been sat on the driveway - no EHU and obviously no DC/DC input. The fridge is off, but the door is open (to stop mould forming), so there are 4 small, blue LEDs that are lit 24/7. This small load causes SOC to fall to ~98% overnight and this is then restored to 100% during the day via solar.

If battery temp was below 0C during the day, is this small amount of solar charging likely to damage the batteries? Are we talking reduced capacity, reduced life expectancy or a completely shagged battery?

I'm not sure i fully agree with @Dellmassive on replacing expensive batteries as being the best option. The only protection that is lacking is the low temp.

I know that my caravan obviously doesn't have a DC-DC charger and I do protect myself from problems with low temp by use of a Victron Battery Smart Sense with both the MPPT and mains charger being on the VE Network which prevents charging at sub 5 degrees C.

The Victron Smart Battery Sense provides better control over low temp management, but your MPPT does have built in protection to prevent charging in low temps.

On your MPPT controller and you can set the low temp cut off here:


Your list of kit details the following:

• Victron Energy SmartSolar MPPT 75|15 Charge Controller
• Victron Energy Orion-Tr Smart 12|12-30 (360/430W) Non-isolated
• Victron Energy Blue Smart 12|15 (1)

You are sorted for low temp protection on your Victron MPPT, so long as you check that this is set up.

You have an Orion DC-DC charger and it is my opinion that these are a little lacking in various ways; not least the lack of ability to use VE Networking.
In order to prevent a problem, I fitted low temp protection to my first install which used a Renogy 170AH lithium which had no low temp cut off:

See here for more details on preventing problems in low temps with this:

£4 Low Temperature (Charge) Protection For Batteries.

Whilst I have my seats removed, I thought I'd take the opportunity to have an experiment with one of these: https://hobbycomponents.com/sensors/684-w1209-temperature-control-switch After satisfying myself that it was fit for the intended purpose, I have wired it to switch the remote loop from...

www.t6forum.com

This leaves the "Energy Blue Smart 12|15 (1)" Mains Charger; If you have "Rev2" of this charger it is compatible with VE Networking and I assume that the greyed out "Low temp cut-off" becomes a changeable item once a Smart Battery Sense is fitted.

See below from the Victron Demo Library:


If your mains charger is not Rev2, then it appears as though low temp protection is not available from within the settings provide by Victron. If this is the case you need to be very careful to avoid charging in low temps.

 

[Higgidav]

Does anyone know what Error 9 is about please? Google didn't help and I'm assuming it's something to do with low temperature but.....

Error 9 is just a temperature warning. Mine does exactly the same (photo attached from earlier this week). My Renogy has the heating element so provided the bluesmart charger is providing 4a then the heating element kicks in. I have noticed that I get the warning below 5 and the warning remains active until the battery reaches 10 deg C.

 

[Dellmassive]

i have two vic IP22 BSC,

one is HW Rev1 and one is HW Rev2 - and as you say the Rev2 has the "VE.Smart" BT networking.

but afaik the IP65 BSC version do not have "VE.Smart" BT networking.



there isnt a IP65 BSC rev2 listed in the demo library.




do we know what version @Bav has? ip22 or ip65?


.

 

[Stay Frosty]

If I'm not using the van for camping, which we don't either side of Christmas for a couple of month plus, then I turn off the leisure battery isolator and the solar panel isolator meaning no chance of alternator or solar input via the Renogy DCC50S.
Waeco fridge door is left on the ventilate catch and the van gets used as a second car.

 

[Bav]

i have two vic IP22 BSC,

one is HW Rev1 and one is HW Rev2 - and as you say the Rev2 has the "VE.Smart" BT networking.

but afaik the IP65 BSC version do not have "VE.Smart" BT networking.

View attachment 226249

there isnt a IP65 BSC rev2 listed in the demo library.

View attachment 226251


do we know what version @Bav has? ip22 or ip65?


.

It's the IP22 version. How do I tell if it's Rev1 or Rev2?

 

[Dellmassive]

HW V1 or V2?

v2 version has the VE SMART section.

like this. ( the V1 doesn't have that bit)



you can check via serial number range as well,. . . . but would need to check at what point they swapped over.

 

[Bav]

The VictronConnect app only shows the solar and DC/DC chargers - the BSC doesn't show at all...

 

[Dellmassive]

Switched on at the mains? (It needs to be for the app to work)

 

[Bav]

I'm not sure i fully agree with @Dellmassive on replacing expensive batteries as being the best option. The only protection that is lacking is the low temp.

I know that my caravan obviously doesn't have a DC-DC charger and I do protect myself from problems with low temp by use of a Victron Battery Smart Sense with both the MPPT and mains charger being on the VE Network which prevents charging at sub 5 degrees C.

The Victron Smart Battery Sense provides better control over low temp management, but your MPPT does have built in protection to prevent charging in low temps.

On your MPPT controller and you can set the low temp cut off here:
View attachment 226243

Your list of kit details the following:

• Victron Energy SmartSolar MPPT 75|15 Charge Controller
• Victron Energy Orion-Tr Smart 12|12-30 (360/430W) Non-isolated
• Victron Energy Blue Smart 12|15 (1)

You are sorted for low temp protection on your Victron MPPT, so long as you check that this is set up.

You have an Orion DC-DC charger and it is my opinion that these are a little lacking in various ways; not least the lack of ability to use VE Networking.
In order to prevent a problem, I fitted low temp protection to my first install which used a Renogy 170AH lithium which had no low temp cut off:

See here for more details on preventing problems in low temps with this:

£4 Low Temperature (Charge) Protection For Batteries.

Whilst I have my seats removed, I thought I'd take the opportunity to have an experiment with one of these: https://hobbycomponents.com/sensors/684-w1209-temperature-control-switch After satisfying myself that it was fit for the intended purpose, I have wired it to switch the remote loop from...

www.t6forum.com

This leaves the "Energy Blue Smart 12|15 (1)" Mains Charger; If you have "Rev2" of this charger it is compatible with VE Networking and I assume that the greyed out "Low temp cut-off" becomes a changeable item once a Smart Battery Sense is fitted.

See below from the Victron Demo Library:
View attachment 226245

If your mains charger is not Rev2, then it appears as though low temp protection is not available from within the settings provide by Victron. If this is the case you need to be very careful to avoid charging in low temps.

Thanks @Samro.

TBF, I wasn't planning on swapping the batteries out - that'll have to wait until they need replacing (which will hopefully be after I've moved the van on) - but I really do need to get to grips with all this Victron app stuff. My converter simply told me to download the app, but I know naff-all about its capabilities or how to use it.

As I sit in my front room, the app doesn't show any Victron components, so I presume the app communicates over Bluetooth and I'm out of range.

 

[Bav]

Switched on at the mains? (It needs to be for the app to work)

Sorry, I'm a complete dummy when it comes to all things electrical! Ok, so I need to be on EHU for the BSC to talk to the app - makes sense I guess. I'd best check battery temp is > 0C before hooking up then!!!

 

[NicolasH]

I have a question that I think @Dellmassive maybe able to help with. We are fair weather campers so the T6 doesn’t get much use in the winter. We have a Fogstar 105ah battery. Is it okay to switch the battery off using the app or will it damage the mppt and solar panel. Or should I just leave it on? I was thinking about limiting charge cycles over winter. Apologies for daft question.

 

[Dellmassive]

I have a question that I think @Dellmassive maybe able to help with. We are fair weather campers so the T6 doesn’t get much use in the winter. We have a Fogstar 105ah battery. Is it okay to switch the battery off using the app or will it damage the mppt and solar panel. Or should I just leave it on? I was thinking about limiting charge cycles over winter. Apologies for daft question.

You can via the app switch the charge and discharge off for winter storage.

But you must ensure that the battery has no chance of going flat.

It's best to charge once a month.

The drift I have has the button on that just does as you will do via the app.

 

[Samro]

Thanks @Samro.

TBF, I wasn't planning on swapping the batteries out - that'll have to wait until they need replacing (which will hopefully be after I've moved the van on) - but I really do need to get to grips with all this Victron app stuff. My converter simply told me to download the app, but I know naff-all about its capabilities or how to use it.

As I sit in my front room, the app doesn't show any Victron components, so I presume the app communicates over Bluetooth and I'm out of range.

Yes you need to be within Bluetooth range of the devices and the charger needs to be powered on at the mains. If you isolate the battery switch and turn on the mains charger, you will be able to connect to the charger via BT without charging the batteries.

 

[NicolasH]

You can via the app switch the charge and discharge off for winter storage.

But you must ensure that the battery has no chance of going flat.

It's best to charge once a month.

The drift I have has the button on that just does as you will do via the app.

Thanks. So if I did this is won’t damage other components like the mppt controller or solar panel?

 

[roadtripper]

Another consideration is that Lithium chemistry doesn't like being held at full charge, ideal storage charge is around 40% charged. If you are mothballing the electrics for a bit I'd aim for that but definitely worth checking and topping up if needed every month or so, maybe when you wash the van.

All profile chargers like you mention charge in response to the current voltage of the battery, if they see no voltage they won't charge.

 

[NicolasH]

Another consideration is that Lithium chemistry doesn't like being held at full charge, ideal storage charge is around 40% charged. If you are mothballing the electrics for a bit I'd aim for that but definitely worth checking and topping up if needed every month or so, maybe when you wash the van.

All profile chargers like you mention charge in response to the current voltage of the battery, if they see no voltage they won't charge.

Thank you @roadtripper that's very helpful.