Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

[TallPaul_S]

It's time for me to start looking at my LiFePO4 options. Currently I have the std OEM 75Ah and split charge relay and in 24hrs parked up with just the fridge and lights going, I'd used 29Ah - taking me below 50%.

I'm debating whether I need the full beast of a 230Ah seatbase, or if I could get away with the 105Ah. Fogstar are going to be my battery of choice.

The way I see it, worst, worst case scenario of winter in Scotland, raining/cloudy with little to zero solar, I'd be looking at 25Ah for the fridge per day, then 20Ah for the heater (uses 0.5 to 2Ah once up to temp apparently), plus lights, charging - so that's 2 days on the 105Ah. 4 days on on the 230Ah.

But, I'll be going for a 300w Victron rigid panel so 50w for 2 or 3 hours per day would put back in 15Ah each day, correct? So we're down from 50Ah a day usage to 35Ah, meaning 3 full days on a 105Ah.

The likelihood hood of me sitting it out in a Scottish winter in 3 solid days of rain in a very low, I'd have driven somewhere to find better weather by then!! But, it could happen - pre-booked campsites etc.

Thoughts?

My trip over the last couple of days was a good eye opener to how much power I need to keep just the basics going.

Edit: I'd probably fit an inverter at some point but 1000w would honestly be plenty.

 

[roadtripper]

I think it comes down to physical space as well, particularly if you are considering an inverter. A 1KW inverter will be fine in either route, but you are going to need 100A cables between it and the battery that you will want to keep short.

There is going to be more space with the 105Ah option, the seat base is going to use essentially all the space. And you will need space to fit a solar charger and the inverter.

Remember if you have a high current DC-DC in the mix (the new Victron Orion comes to mind) then you do have the option of the engine for those edge cases. An hour of engine, maybe a quick drive to shop if it's pissing down, will put a lot back in at 50A.

 

[Strettyp]

I've got the same OEM battery with the heater factory fitted and am having the same conversation (with myself) as I only really need it for the fridge and heater - the battery I have is a bit asthmatic and so having a chunky monkey would be great but do I neeeeed it? The lithium batteries aren't cheap but would be super handy and you can't take it with you

I have an Anker 757 power station which is amazing and have a 230w solar panel on the roof now which will charge it nicely in the summer but tbf these last two weeks I've seen maybe three decent sunny days and having been out in it this weekend it's going to struggle to get charged up with the week of rain that we're forecast before heading out next weekend (obviously I can charge it off the mains but where's the fun in that!)

Dell massive kindly recommended some batteries so I'm going to look at those and then decide what to do

 

[TallPaul_S]

Yeah I have the factory fitted Eberspacher and although it's really hard to find any hard specs on power consumption, I've read it uses 7-24w when running, and 100w on startup.

I could fit a 2000w inverter mounted on the back of the seat base, and that would also give the option of going to induction cooking but right now, 1000w would be way more than Id need.

Realistically my usage in the next year or 2 is going to max out at laptop charging, and maybe e-bike charging. I have a jetboil if I want a cup of coffee, and other than that it's just fridge, heater, lights, and usb charging.

And I'm fairly set on:
Victron XS 50a DC-DC
Victron 100/20 MPPT
Victron 305w rigid mono solar panel
Ablemail AMT12-2 for starter trickle charging
Victron Smart Shunt

I've experienced the Renogy system and if I'm going to do it, I may as well do it right. #teamblue it is

That lot comes to £1065 with the 105Ah and £1500 with the 230Ah.

I've made myself a mock 230Ah battery so what I'll probably do is mount all the above kit allowing space for the 230ah (I think it'll fit...) and then I'll have the option of upgrading easily if I go for the 105Ah and decide I need more powah!

 

[roadtripper]

I always favour CardCAD mockups - nothing like being able to handle it

A 1kw inverter will give you induction cooking too if you paired it with one of the variable wattage induction hobs.

 

[TallPaul_S]

Can't beat a bit of CAD (cardboard aided design) and CAD (computer aided design)!

I stopped short of writing "Fogstar 230Ah" on the side in black permanent marker...

 

[roadtripper]

But a good idea to draw where the handles and terminals are?

 

[Salty Spuds]

It's time for me to start looking at my LiFePO4 options. Currently I have the std OEM 75Ah and split charge relay and in 24hrs parked up with just the fridge and lights going, I'd used 29Ah - taking me below 50%.

I'm debating whether I need the full beast of a 230Ah seatbase, or if I could get away with the 105Ah. Fogstar are going to be my battery of choice.

The way I see it, worst, worst case scenario of winter in Scotland, raining/cloudy with little to zero solar, I'd be looking at 25Ah for the fridge per day, then 20Ah for the heater (uses 0.5 to 2Ah once up to temp apparently), plus lights, charging - so that's 2 days on the 105Ah. 4 days on on the 230Ah.

But, I'll be going for a 300w Victron rigid panel so 50w for 2 or 3 hours per day would put back in 15Ah each day, correct? So we're down from 50Ah a day usage to 35Ah, meaning 3 full days on a 105Ah.

The likelihood hood of me sitting it out in a Scottish winter in 3 solid days of rain in a very low, I'd have driven somewhere to find better weather by then!! But, it could happen - pre-booked campsites etc.

Thoughts?

My trip over the last couple of days was a good eye opener to how much power I need to keep just the basics going.

Edit: I'd probably fit an inverter at some point but 1000w would honestly be plenty.

Just run “Scottish winter” & “fridge” by me again

 

[TallPaul_S]

But a good idea to draw where the handles and terminals are?

Maybe, tbh it's more fitting stuff around it that's the issue.

Just run “Scottish winter” & “fridge” by me again

Ha, that's true! Ok, maybe "Scottish summer when you're trapped in your van for 3 days thanks to swarms of man eating midges"

 

[Stay Frosty]

That's the Roamer 230Ah seatbase battery and the current version of the Renogy DCC50S which has a taller heat sink... the first DCC50S sadly conked out.
A couple of years back @Long tall John calmed me down a bit when I was planning my setup when he pointed out that his 105Ah lifp battery and Renogy DCC50S meant he only had to drive for an hour at most every couple of days to refill his battery for the next session.
Me being short small Dave I just wanted a bit more but realistically having put two 175 watt panels on the poptop I don't have to go for a drive and at a push not burn gas to cremate toast or beans.

 

[Salty Spuds]

Notwithstanding that I’ve never heard anyone complain about having too much battery capacity, we get along quite happily with 100Ah of Lithium. This includes extended trips in southern Europe in early summer & skiing trips to the Alps in winter. Sometimes we have to manage the power we use by keeping things to a minimum to save the power for essentials, but we’ve never run out or been cold or drunk warm beer.

 

[TallPaul_S]

Yeah tbh I don't think summer will be any issue at all, especially if I have 300w of solar on the roof. It's the spring/autumn trips, pre-booked at a site for a few days in the Highlands (the best time to go, also) when the weather turns bad and there's little solar coming in and all I want to do is turn the heater up to 11 and shut out the rain...

 

[TallPaul_S]

View attachment 244041
That's the Roamer 230Ah seatbase battery and the current version of the Renogy DCC50S which has a taller heat sink... the first DCC50S sadly conked out.
A couple of years back @Long tall John calmed me down a bit when I was planning my setup when he pointed out that his 105Ah lifp battery and Renogy DCC50S meant he only had to drive for an hour at most every couple of days to refill his battery for the next session.
Me being short small Dave I just wanted a bit more but realistically having put two 175 watt panels on the poptop I don't have to go for a drive and at a push not burn gas to cremate toast or beans.

Is that the current version fitted, or not fitted (sat next to the seat base)? The website says it's 96mm deep. The biggest bit of kit I'll need to fit is a 60mm deep Victron 100/20 MPPT.

 

[Drive Wayne]

With that hoofin great big solar panel, it seems almost rude to not do the proper job with a 230Ah LB and 2000 watt pervertor. Like me you may want to use a hair (singular) dryer and hair straightener!

 

[TallPaul_S]

With that hoofin great big solar panel, it seems almost rude to not do the proper job with a 230Ah LB and 2000 watt pervertor. Like me you may want to use a hair (singular) dryer and hair straightener!

No chance of me using that sort of machinery again! I may need to charge up my clippers if I've gone a few weeks without my 2mm buzzcut

But I agree, with 300w and 230Ah, even with a 2000w inverter I doubt I'd ever have to worry about running out of power.

 

[Drive Wayne]

Y

No chance of me using that sort of machinery again! I may need to charge up my clippers if I've gone a few weeks without my 2mm buzzcut

But I agree, with 300w and 230Ah, even with a 2000w inverter I doubt I'd ever have to worry about running out of power.

You wouldn't, and in our experience that's a lovely place to be! What happens if you switch bikes for a 'love of your life' who needs a coffee machine, decent induction hob and toaster?! And obviously a Henry hoover and a mains SDS drill!

 

[Stay Frosty]

Is that the current version fitted, or not fitted (sat next to the seat base)? The website says it's 96mm deep. The biggest bit of kit I'll need to fit is a 60mm deep Victron 100/20 MPPT.

Blimey 96mm that's nearly 4" and the Renogy isn't that deep, this latest version has the heatsink about 20mm taller so I've had to nibble a bit more metal away to slot the thing into the VW seatbase.
I've got the external hookup powered Victron 30A charger and 2kw Renogy inverter sat behind the drivers seat mounted on the side of the Waeco fridge housing, what's left of the Sargent ec160 panel and the solar isolator in the wardrobe and everything else including the battery isolator is in or on the front of the seatbase... it's tight!

 

[T6uno]

Yeah I have the factory fitted Eberspacher and although it's really hard to find any hard specs on power consumption, I've read it uses 7-24w when running, and 100w on startup.

I could fit a 2000w inverter mounted on the back of the seat base, and that would also give the option of going to induction cooking but right now, 1000w would be way more than Id need.

Realistically my usage in the next year or 2 is going to max out at laptop charging, and maybe e-bike charging. I have a jetboil if I want a cup of coffee, and other than that it's just fridge, heater, lights, and usb charging.

And I'm fairly set on:
Victron XS 50a DC-DC
Victron 100/20 MPPT
Victron 305w rigid mono solar panel
Ablemail AMT12-2 for starter trickle charging
Victron Smart Shunt

I've experienced the Renogy system and if I'm going to do it, I may as well do it right. #teamblue it is

That lot comes to £1065 with the 105Ah and £1500 with the 230Ah.

I've made myself a mock 230Ah battery so what I'll probably do is mount all the above kit allowing space for the 230ah (I think it'll fit...) and then I'll have the option of upgrading easily if I go for the 105Ah and decide I need more powah!

Are you looking to mount the Victron Panel to the Roof rails?

I have the genuine Omtec bars and cross rails, with my cross rails set to the maximum distance apart I get a measurement of around 161cm, the Victron panels around 165cm meaning it would be too long for the bars unless 2cm of each end was put underneath them, I’m not sure if this would cause any issues?

I’m looking to do something similar to the setup you have proposed so would love to know what you have planned?

 

[TallPaul_S]

Are you looking to mount the Victron Panel to the Roof rails?

I have the genuine Omtec bars and cross rails, with my cross rails set to the maximum distance apart I get a measurement of around 161cm, the Victron panels around 165cm meaning it would be too long for the bars unless 2cm of each end was put underneath them, I’m not sure if this would cause any issues?

I’m looking to do something similar to the setup you have proposed so would love to know what you have planned?

Yes, but no...

I'll explain, haha!

I have a Fiamma F40 Van awning which uses the front and rear most roof bar mounting points to attach to the van. Which means (on the passenger side) I can't fit roof rails.

I don't want to rely just on the std plastic mounts bonded with sikaflex as I'm not going to be drilling any holes in my roof, so I'm going to try to use the 2x roof bar mounting holes still free on each side, I'll probably mount some aluminium track in this, then mount some low bars across in these to go under the panel, and attach the panel to this. With that and the std mounts it should be nice and secure.

That's a few weeks away at present anyway, I'll post once I've found a solution.

 

[T6uno]

Yes, but no...

I'll explain, haha!

I have a Fiamma F40 Van awning which uses the front and rear most roof bar mounting points to attach to the van. Which means (on the passenger side) I can't fit roof rails.

I don't want to rely just on the std plastic mounts bonded with sikaflex as I'm not going to be drilling any holes in my roof, so I'm going to try to use the 2x roof bar mounting holes still free on each side, I'll probably mount some aluminium track in this, then mount some low bars across in these to go under the panel, and attach the panel to this. With that and the std mounts it should be nice and secure.

That's a few weeks away at present anyway, I'll post once I've found a solution.

Sounds super interesting, will be eagerly waiting to see what you come up with, I’m still trying to find a panel that will fit between my cross rails, if that panel you suggested was 4cm smaller it would have been ideal for me