Solar Panel no controller

[Chris1983]

You could always fit an Ablemail AMT12-2 which will use the leisure battery to keep the starter topped up. With solar keeping the leisure topped up it’s a fit and forget system that costs £65 and is really simple to fit next to the DC-DC. My starter battery is knackered but the AMT keeps it happily topped up at around 12.3v as shown below. I’ll need to replace it sometime but it’s putting that off for a good while yet. It’s brilliant when camping or tinkering as it will prevent an accidental flat from the lights and locks cycling all the time.

View attachment 248161

Hello,

Don’t wish to derail thread but quick query.

I have the dreaded SCR rather than DC to DC. Would Ablemail 12-2 help in this instance.

Two Solar panels wired into rear cupboard seems to keep fridge etc going. (Much help in solar was gleaned from this forum prior).

 

[TallPaul_S]

Hello,

Don’t wish to derail thread but quick query.

I have the dreaded SCR rather than DC to DC. Would Ablemail 12-2 help in this instance.

Two Solar panels wired into rear cupboard seems to keep fridge etc going. (Much help in solar was gleaned from this forum prior).

Yes - all the Ablemail does is look at the leisure battery and starter battery voltage and if they meet the requirements, it feeds a couple of amps to the SB in a short burst.

If you've got solar, there's a setting which will only charge the SB when the LB is being charged (via solar) and has an increased voltage. It doesn't matter what alternator charging you've got.

Although, you'll want to make sure the Ablemail can't drain your LB down so make sure the settings are all correct.

 

[Chris1983]

Yes - all the Ablemail does is look at the leisure battery and starter battery voltage and if they meet the requirements, it feeds a couple of amps to the SB in a short burst.

If you've got solar, there's a setting which will only charge the SB when the LB is being charged (via solar) and has an increased voltage. It doesn't matter what alternator charging you've got.

Although, you'll want to make sure the Ablemail can't drain your LB down so make sure the settings are all correct.

Thank you.

Where would I house this? Near the starter or the leisure? Presume that is where it wires across?

 

[TallPaul_S]

Thank you.

Where would I house this? Near the starter or the leisure? Presume that is where it wires across?

Near the LB is normal, you'd need to attach the SB connection to the feed coming in from the SB. If you've got a 6.1 that's easy as they use ring terminals on the SCR, but the T6 has blade connectors so you'd need to find a way to tap into to the SB feed.

I highly recommend getting rid of the SCR and installing a proper DC-DC charger, you've already got all the wiring you need in place.

 

[Chris1983]

Going back to my lack of electrical prowess……

How straightforward? I have T6 so not ring connectors as you say.

 

[TallPaul_S]

Going back to my lack of electrical prowess……

How straightforward? I have T6 so not ring connectors as you say.

Well I just so happens to have a T6 split charge relay here, so you can see what it looks like (relay is removed but that's the holder):


The black wire is the ignition signal
Brown is ground
The cut red is from the SB
The intact red goes to an 80a fuse, then to the LB



You would need to have the Ablemail SB connection on the SB side of the split charge relay as otherwise it won't be connected to the SB.

The only way to do it would be to cut and then rejoin the SB feed, you could add a midi fuse holder, then add ring terminals to the cut ends of the SB feed. You'd need this anyway when/if you upgraded the SCR to a DC-DC charger. Then add the Ablemail SB feed via a 2.5mm wire and smaller trying terminal.

 

[Chris1983]

I’m going to read this another 6 times, in the hope it makes sense…sorry, this is my lack of understanding of something many of you seem to really have a grasp of.

 

[ginkster]

Thank you.

Where would I house this? Near the starter or the leisure? Presume that is where it wires across?

To save wiring it is best to put it by the DC-DC or SCR in your case as it simply bridges across this to supply power to the SB when required. It’s 3 wires - 1 to the pos feed from the SB, 1 from the pos feed to the LB and a neg.

Edit: instructions added

 

[Chris1983]

Is there a website/ electrical site where I could buy all this stuff pre wired etc? Cos I don’t think I understand what I would need to do.

I have however had a really bad experience with a local ‘auto electrician’ who left a job in a right pigs ear state. Got very very sour that interaction (dash cam install).

Dav tec on here ended up sorting that for me excellently, and even given the drive I’d happily give him the work but as I understand he doesn’t do ‘hab/ Solar stuff’ which I think this falls under

 

[Chris1983]

And which Dc to Dc charger is recommended? I have normal lead acid batteries and can’t spring for Lifepo currently

 

[roadtripper]

If you want to invest for the future the Victron Orion XS is compact, powerful and cool running.

If you want the simplest for the now then the CTEK 250 is probably a good choice, but is a bit more bulky and limited (basic fixed config and no app)

Both are lithium capable should you move that way in the future.

Edited to add: the CTEK is also a much lower charging rate (20A) so may be more suitable for modest existing wiring. Also my rule of thumb is it's viable enough to do DIY wiring with good cable and crimp tools up to 30A - but the kind of cable and connectors used for the higher current DC-DC systems are a bit more specialist and likely not in the reach of a one off use. More a case of finding a good professional or a willing helper with the tools from the forum.

 

[Chris1983]

If you want to invest for the future the Victron Orion XS is compact, powerful and cool running.

If you want the simplest for the now then the CTEK 250 is probably a good choice, but is a bit more bulky and limited (basic fixed config and no app)

Both are lithium capable should you move that way in the future.

Edited to add: the CTEK is also a much lower charging rate (20A) so may be more suitable for modest existing wiring. Also my rule of thumb is it's viable enough to do DIY wiring with good cable and crimp tools up to 30A - but the kind of cable and connectors used for the higher current DC-DC systems are a bit more specialist and likely not in the reach of a one off use. More a case of finding a good professional or a willing helper with the tools from the forum.

I was under impression if I started down this route I’d have to change all electrics / hook up etc, well beyond me, is this an incorrect assumption? Is this only required if I went down the lithium battery route?

 

[roadtripper]

That's a different question, if you want to go fully down the LiFePo route then yes all the chargers need to be lithium capable.

Frankly it's hard to find a non lithium capable DC-DC charger, at least amongst the popular recommendations, so you are unlikely to cut off that route.

Look at it this way, the CTEK is not the charger I think I'd pick if you wanted to install LiFePo right now. But if you wanted to install LiFePo in a year or so it's not such a bad choice that it would need changing.

If you were certain you wanted to go LiFePo as soon as budget/opportunity allowed then I'd favour the Orion a little more.

 

[ginkster]

What about the Victron Orion 12-12-18 instead of the CTEK. Nice budget option at about £100, easy to fit, app capable, suitable for current LB with reasonable lithium power in the future (not startling but perfectly acceptable for a 100ah lifepo4). Gets you into the Victron world to go with potential solar and shunts.

 

[Chris1983]

And would an auto engineer look at me sideways if I took him/ her a dc to dc and and Ablemail and said ‘please fit these’ or is that quite straight forward a job for the professionals?

 

[TallPaul_S]

And would an auto engineer look at me sideways if I took him/ her a dc to dc and and Ablemail and said ‘please fit these’ or is that quite straight forward a job for the professionals?

Because you already have the feed from the SB in place, fitting that is probably about an hours work. 2hrs max. The worst part is lifting out the passenger seat!

 

[ginkster]

And would an auto engineer look at me sideways if I took him/ her a dc to dc and and Ablemail and said ‘please fit these’ or is that quite straight forward a job for the professionals?

It’s a very simple job as long as there is enough play in the existing cables. I’d say have a go yourself which will help you understand your electrics. You would only need a couple of cheap tools (crimper and cutter) if you go with the Victron as that takes bare cable ends. Just cut off the existing connectors to the SCR, bare a cm of cable and insert into the Orion. Follow the instructions for the correct order.

The Ablemail comes with spade connectors so you would need to crimp those (£10-12 for the tool off Amazon). It uses small gauge cables available from Halfords and you simply crimp on the supplied connectors and cut to length. Bare ends go into the Orion alongside the other cables.

You will need 2 neg cables for the Victron 18a (as it is a ‘isolated’ unit) which connect to the same neg point under the seat. You can buy ready made cables (online or Halfords) and cut one end off to go in the Orion, the pre-attached ring to the chassis neg point.

£20 in hardware an hour or two of you time and job jobbed. And knowledge gained. I did all mine and I’m certainly not an electrician!

 

[roadtripper]

Second @ginkster advice (and good suggestion of a lower end Victron)

If you invest in crimp tools do yourself and your hands a favour and get a basic ratchet version (£15) not the very basic flat pressed metal version (£5) - they're much easier to use and because they don't release until enough pressure has been applied the crimps are much much better.

Make sure you buy enough crimps and cable to have a couple of practise runs first away from the van to get the hang of it, give the connections a good tug to ensure they are firm. It's daunting your first time but I promise you do a handful of practice runs with a ratchet crimper and you'll be wondering what you worried about in no time.

Minotaur Ratchet Crimping Tool

Tightly join two electrical wires using this latching crimping tool from Minotaur. It works by heavily compressing the materials to create a permanent bond. You can take your pick from three different settings, each designed for use with cables ranging from 0.5 mm² to 6 mm² in diameter. This...

www.toolstation.com

 

[TallPaul_S]

Yeah you need a fair few tools to do crimping jobs - a set of ratchet crimpers for insulated crimps and up to 6mm² uninsulated (mine have about 6x different jaws), a wire stripping tool, and a big set of crimpers for anything 10mm² and above.

The T6 factory SB to LB feed is 10mm² cable

 

[Chris1983]

You guys certainly boost a chaos confidence. Look to the north for the fireball!

All LB is under drivers seat.presume can’t be done with the play afforded with chair back and forth, deffo needs to come out?