T6.1 Reduce oil level and Oil dilution
- Thread starter Steve F
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Half way is right, it solved my issue. How long do you drive before the warning comes up again? Have you opened and closed the bonnet to temporarily clear it for 60 miles?
Welcome to our friendly gathering by the way, don't forget it's the law to show us a pic of your new van!
It seems to be the standard 60ish miles. Open the bonnet and warning goes. Short commute each day. The first time it came on was last week at the end of a 2 hour drive from dealer we bought it from
When i reduced my oil to half way up the crosshatching, the warning came on twice after that. That was 18 months ago on a 6.1 2020 (Startline poverty edition!), no warnings since.
After an oil service, oil has been filled full again, I get home and take out about 4-500 ml through the dipstick tube with a £10 siphon kit from Karparts. I've asked my local VW indy to put 500ml less in during a service, but that seems to be beyond them!
How long ago did you reduce your oil?
At the weekend about 500 ml. Mines poverty edition too.
Don't take any more out, be patient for a week or so!
The joys of T6 ownership, this is just a little hiccup along a wonderful route!
Mine (poverty plus business pack) has been fine since draining out about 600ml. No evidence of dilution or contamination, thenoil smells ok and it isnt rising, it just didn't tolerate the standard issue slight overfill that seems common practice among garages these days.
I’ll double check level at weekend, it was dark and f’ing cold when I did it.
The oil or the weather?!?
both.The oil or the weather?!?
Which syphon kit are people using?
My local Karparts, £9.99
Never heard of karparts. I've found something on Amazon, hopefully the tube will be ok for the dipstick tube
My local indie service centre have finally cottoned on to the halfway up the crosshatching law!
Mentioned it to a mate, he says the sprinters do the same thing. Oil level needs to be halfway.
It doesn't occur. Excessive dilution is all but unheard of on these.
The warning messages are simply a case of garages brimming the oil to the top mark on the dipstick or even beyond. Sooner or later this upsets the sensor.
Once the oil level is reduced to around the halfway mark the warning messges disappear and the level stays there.
Well TBF I agree Sasquatch, specifically with the term 'excessive'. Although (sorry..certainly no offence) I perhaps don't advocate taking a big slug of oil out so that the oil is halfway down the dipstick (certainly on my own van, or any of my vehicles). As an engineer, having worked on my own cars all my life, and built my own engines, I guess it doesn't sit well. (Seems like a 'fudge' if that's the correct term and to my mind could?? be detrimental to the engine - i'm thinking oil surge round corners etc. Probably overkill in the van, but you get the picture). If it was meant to be only half way up the dip stick, that would be the 'Max' line or else whats the point. But here's my two penneth from my experience.
I have a T6.1 '22 plate T30 150 BHP 6 spd HL that I've had from new. I do about 5-6 K miles PA. I wouldn't say I do 'all' short journeys. A pretty mixed bag, and it does get a good warm up and run out at least once a week (60 mile round trip) interspersed with a few short local trips. I always let it warm up before pushing and like to think I'm mechanically sympathetic (it's my personal van).
After a year and about 5500 miles, rather than wait for the 'service notification' to pop up at say 24 months, I performed an interim oil and filter change. (My good friend, who is an experienced VW/AUDI Tech, and runs his own BOSCH Car Service Franchise lent me a ramp and I duly changed the oil and filter, using OEM Parts and correct grade oil). Due to a oops moment (didn't have my glasses on and too busy chatting!!) I put a smidge too much oil in and it was just (I mean just) over the top of the dipstick, but I thought I'd be ok. Anyhow, next day driving around I had the warning light come up. Bu@@er. Nip back to my mates and drain down so it's just floating under the max. Warning light out, and never had an issue since. It's also had its' 'OEM Main Dealer' Service last November. Checked the level after, and was literally just under full. Again no issues.
Some people say that even after draining they can't get rid of the warning, and those who have been into VW seem to get nowhere really. My view is that the supposed 'software update' as others have said, simply changes the parameters of what the oil level sensor see's as 'Full'. A bit like scrubbing Full off the side of your kettle, and writing it an inch up in permanent marker. (possibly a simplistic analogy?).
Anyhow as this popped up yesterday and caught my eye, whilst I was seeing aforementioned Friend (above) I spoke to him about it today. He offered that he would not advocate putting off the oil changes to every 24 months (ish) or when it pops up, but do it every year or at least 10K miles, if it's your own van. Certainly if it's on lease or a Fleet job, who cares, but with your own it's different. He looks after a lot of Fleet customers (British Gas, Local electrical Companies etc) and after say 20K the oil is mullered. Also, you have to ensure the correct grade is used, due to 'some' Diesel absorption.
The oil level sensor itself, apparently comes C/W a small assembly with a pick up tube. He's seen a few vans with this issue (not being able to get rid of the warning even though the oil is obviously NOT overfull) caused by the Oil Level sensor itself being bunged up, (with rubbish from overly long oil change intervals) so sending the sensor into a flat spin. so he would perhaps advise changing the sensor, so at least you know you are back at square one.
He (as does Sasquatch and I) think the oil dilution (in the main - there are always exceptions) should not be excessive. Yes, you will get some fuel leak past the piston rings, perhaps more so during warm up as the engine works at a high compression., and stopping mid re-gen doesn't help, but shouldn't' cause this much hassle. Apparently, there are a few temperature sensors throughout the engine that control the amount of fuel so me just watching the oil temp and water is not the end of it (but a good place to start), which is why it's so good to try and get the van on a healthy run out as often as you can.
One area where is is steadfast with everyone else, is 'DON'T OVERFILL IT'. (Like i did!!!) He would always put it just under full on the dip stick (he mentioned another make , maybe a Mercedes model (can't recall) where it's exactly the same. Full it to bang on, customer goes round a round about .....warning light'. so it seems we are not alone. But certainly not 'half way down'.
I certainly feel for those who are chasing their backsides on this, and VW perhaps don't have the answer, but hopefully the above may enlighten and passing on info from a Technician I certainly respect for his knowledge.
So in summary:
1. Don't fill to the Max but JUST below.
2. Try and give it a run to get warmed through as often as you can.
3. Change oil every 10K or yearly
4. Ensure correct grade of oil.
5. If after draining, you get persistent issues, despite the Oil obviously NOT being too high, don't rule out a new sensor
Oh......and now for the conspiracy theory.........I only ever use 'Branded Fuel' (Typically Shell, or BP) Not Optimax just Regular 'FuelSave' Diesel, but in my 2 years plus of ownership from new it's NEVER had Supermarket Diesel. (Not sure if that makes a difference but just for openness).
Well after all that I'm bound to get the warning pop up next week!!! Ha.
I'm an engineer by training too, although I've never been employed as one.
Removing a dollop of oil is no issue for me, for several reasons.
Firstly, the ideal amount is still perfectly within spec, oil pressure is maintained correctly and the volume of oil reaching each component per unit.
And secondly, most reciprocating engines will if left to their own devices will find their own natural level about 1/2 to 2/3 along the dispstick anyway and then won't burn any more.
The solution above is, as you say, very much a fudge. However, as you also say, the problem doesn't lie on the mechanical side - it lies with the over sensitivity/poor design of the oil level sensor, and the inability of factory/dealer spanner jockeys to fill an engine correctly.
As you also correctly say, the best long term fix is to fill the oil correctly at service time, which is never to the top of the dipstick on any vehicle anyway, and never has been.
One part where I will, respectfully, differ in opinion is the fuel side, having studied fuels and combustion. I could go on for hours as to the reasons why but suffice to say there is little empirical evidence that supermarket fuels are in anyway inferior to brand named fuels.
In any case, many supermarket forecourts are not actually run by the supermarkets. Morrisons, for example, are run by MFG under Morrisons branding, and MFG don't manufacturer any fuel themselves but buy it on the open market from the usual brand name suspects. That said I use Shell, for no other reason than the nearest forecourt is a Shell job.
Removing a dollop of oil is no issue for me, for several reasons.
Firstly, the ideal amount is still perfectly within spec, oil pressure is maintained correctly and the volume of oil reaching each component per unit.
And secondly, most reciprocating engines will if left to their own devices will find their own natural level about 1/2 to 2/3 along the dispstick anyway and then won't burn any more.
The solution above is, as you say, very much a fudge. However, as you also say, the problem doesn't lie on the mechanical side - it lies with the over sensitivity/poor design of the oil level sensor, and the inability of factory/dealer spanner jockeys to fill an engine correctly.
As you also correctly say, the best long term fix is to fill the oil correctly at service time, which is never to the top of the dipstick on any vehicle anyway, and never has been.
One part where I will, respectfully, differ in opinion is the fuel side, having studied fuels and combustion. I could go on for hours as to the reasons why but suffice to say there is little empirical evidence that supermarket fuels are in anyway inferior to brand named fuels.
In any case, many supermarket forecourts are not actually run by the supermarkets. Morrisons, for example, are run by MFG under Morrisons branding, and MFG don't manufacturer any fuel themselves but buy it on the open market from the usual brand name suspects. That said I use Shell, for no other reason than the nearest forecourt is a Shell job.
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