Van Speed Limit?

[VanBlanc]

This is DVLA page about how to get you conversion body type changed.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...756/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motorhome.pdf

It is easy - I did it for our T5.1. Sent everything off and got the V5 back within fortnight.

 

[Davenjo]

The conversion I'm buying (Hillside Leisure Birchover) has type approval so this should all be done for me. Not long to wait now (hopefully!) - built in week 35 and last I heard it was at Grimsby - so I should find out soon.

 

[Mojo]

Well you learn something new every day! It still sounds like there is a slight 'grey' area regarding Kombi's and conversions.. a 'safety' camera van will just take a photo but will they check to see what your van is registered as before they send you a fine through the post??

 

[VanBlanc]

Well you learn something new every day! It still sounds like there is a slight 'grey' area regarding Kombi's and conversions.. a 'safety' camera van will just take a photo but will they check to see what your van is registered as before they send you a fine through the post??

No they won't so write and explain and if they ignore you go to court.

And when DVLA say "The information in this document is a summary of the Department’s understanding of what the law requires." they are after all The Experts so a court should accept what they say just have you have consulted the information published by the relevant government agency.

 

[VanBlanc]

The conversion I'm buying (Hillside Leisure Birchover) has type approval so this should all be done for me. Not long to wait now (hopefully!) - built in week 35 and last I heard it was at Grimsby - so I should find out soon.

What "Type Approval" - the base VW van certainly does. As a converter Birchover probably has / even should have IVA (Individual Type Approval).

It will be interesting to see then what your V5 says but still if they buy base vans and not camper chassis from VW I feel sure the V5 will be N1. In fact it is in your interest that it is because you will pay a lot less road tax. And then, as the link I posted just now tells you, it is a legal requirement to have the body type changed to Motor Caravan.

 

[Davenjo]

@VanBlanc - with the volume of vans Hillside are turning out (100s per year across their models), and as members of the NCC, I suspect they have either National Small Series Approval or European Whole Vehicle Type Approval rather than IVA, which seems to be more for individual and/or low volume convertors? When I've been looking for camper van insurance the Hillside Birchover does come up on the drop down lists as a recognised model for a number of insurers which gives me a degree of confidence.

Yep, it will be interesting to see what the V5 comes through with. Point about paying less VED is good - I think as M1 (car) my van would come out at £185 for 2016/17 but I'm struggling to find what rate would be applicable to it as, you suspect, N1 (I think its £230 but not sure if that is applicable to Euro 6 engines or not?).

 

[Mojo]

50 single carriageway
60 dual carriageway
70 motorway

any goods vehicle that is not car derived suffers the reduced limit on main roads
I know someone who got done for 72 on a dual carriageway in a transit connect, moaned at only being 2 mph over and copper said no 12 over theres your 3 points

Well I suppose the answer is slow down, turn up the tunes, chill-out and enjoy the view...

 

[VanBlanc]

Well I suppose the answer is slow down, turn up the tunes, chill-out and enjoy the view...

You are not wrong but the guy should not have taken it lying down. Despite what some of them think coppers don't know everything - he had probably been briefed that day to get stats up and stop vans - might have been better if he had been told to catch mobile phone users

 

[Mojo]

You are not wrong but the guy should not have taken it lying down. Despite what some of them think coppers don't know everything - he had probably been briefed that day to get stats up and stop vans - might have been better if he had been told to catch mobile phone users

I agree but most people read the NIP they get through the post and are intimidated out of challenging it for fear of loosing and getting double the fine, court costs blah blah blah...

 

[VanBlanc]

I agree but most people read the NIP they get through the post and are intimidated out of challenging it for fear of loosing and getting double the fine, court costs blah blah blah...

Their choice but then perhaps they aren't aware of the correct argument and often the law is stacked against them because they won't get costs. Me - well I'm always up for the discussion

 

[Mojo]

Their choice but then perhaps they aren't aware of the correct argument and often the law is stacked against them because they won't get costs. Me - well I'm always up for the discussion

Good Man! knowledge is power etc. I'm glad this has come up as quite a few people (me included) were not on the old forum

 

[Thogg]

My understanding of this is that a factory fitted kombi is absolutely a dual purpose vehicle and as such falls under the same speed regulations as a normal (inferior) car. It wouldn't hurt to have a copy of the construction and use regs regarding this in glovebox so should you get pulled over by an enthusiastic probationer or wannabe traffic officer you can show a degree of knowledge...

Dual purpose vehicle

a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—

(i)
is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or

(ii)
satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—

(a)
the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;

(b)
the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—

(i)
be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and

(ii)
be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and

(c)
the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.

Punishments for dealing with excess speed are in bracketed thresholds (can't speak for all forces here) so between speed a and speed b you can be reported and end up in court or possibly be dealt with by means of points and a fine or be offered a course if you are eligible. As you move up through the brackets the options of a course are removed until you are only left with a court appearance. The simple answer is don't speed and it's not an issue. But if you do get done at 80 and they are running off a 60 limit for your vehicle... that extra 10 mph could mean the difference between a magistrate and half a day at a course... #justsayin

 

[CRD]

As mentioned in paragraph (b), (i), kombi seats are not permanent though?

 

[Rick]

My understanding of this is that a factory fitted kombi is absolutely a dual purpose vehicle and as such falls under the same speed regulations as a normal (inferior) car. It wouldn't hurt to have a copy of the construction and use regs regarding this in glovebox so should you get pulled over by an enthusiastic probationer or wannabe traffic officer you can show a degree of knowledge...

Dual purpose vehicle

a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—

(i)
is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or

(ii)
satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—

(a)
the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;

(b)
the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—

(i)
be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and

(ii)
be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and

(c)
the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.

Punishments for dealing with excess speed are in bracketed thresholds (can't speak for all forces here) so between speed a and speed b you can be reported and end up in court or possibly be dealt with by means of points and a fine or be offered a course if you are eligible. As you move up through the brackets the options of a course are removed until you are only left with a court appearance. The simple answer is don't speed and it's not an issue. But if you do get done at 80 and they are running off a 60 limit for your vehicle... that extra 10 mph could mean the difference between a magistrate and half a day at a course... #justsayin

 

[Rick]

All of the above dosnt matter it's a vehicle that derived from a van then lower speed limits apply

 

[Caravellet6]

All of the above dosnt matter it's a vehicle that derived from a van then lower speed limits apply

Caravelle too? Surely not? I really hope not!

 

[Rick]

If it's van based it will always be a van so lower limits apply
If it a car based van it's classed as a car so car speed limits apply
This was explained to a colleague of mine at a speed awareness course

 

[Rick]

National speed limits
Type of vehicle Built-up areas mph(km/h) Single carriageways mph (km/h) Dual carriageways mph (km/h) Motorways mph(km/h)
Cars, motorcycles, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles 30 (48) 60 (96) 70 (112) 70 (112)
Cars, motorcycles, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles when towing caravans or trailers 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 60 (96)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 60 (96) 70 (112) 70 (112)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 70 (112)
Buses, coaches and minibuses (not more than 12 metres overall length) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 70 (112)
Buses, coaches and minibuses (more than 12 metres overall length) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 60 (96)
Goods vehicles (not more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight) 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 70 (112)
60 (96) if articulated or towing a trailer
Goods vehicles (more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight) in England and Wales 30 (48) 50 (80) 60 (96) 60 (96)
Goods vehicles (more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight) in Scotland 30 (48) 40 (64) 50 (80) 60 (96)
Vans, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles
Most vans under 7.5 tonnes laden (loaded) weight, including Ford Transit vans:

• have a lower speed limit than cars
• must follow the speed limits for goods vehicles of the same weight

A vehicle qualifying as a ‘car-derived van’ or ‘dual-purpose vehicle’ has the same speed limits as a car.

Motorhomes
Motorhomes or motor caravans are classed as goods vehicles if they:

• carry goods for exhibition and sale
• are used as a workshop
• are used for storage

 

[Thogg]

Factory built kombi's are by definition a dual purpose vehicle....

A vehicle qualifying as a ‘car-derived van’ or ‘dual-purpose vehicle’ has the same speed limits as a car....

 

[Caravellet6]

At least speed cameras can't tell which you are, tbh sitting at 60mph on the A1 which a regular journey for me with a lorry up my arsenal doesn't appeal to me.....I've never been stopped in 9 years of Caravelle driving, have I just been lucky?