2017 204PS BiTDi - Seized turbo!

[RunDSG]

Drove the van for a couple hours yesterday, with new turbo installed.

Observations which may prove valuable to other members of the forum:

- When the turbo failure occurred, I got the flashing coil and an AdBlue error. The AdBlue error is confusing (blurry photo attached). You get an amber gear + refill icon with a mileage countdown. This appears to start at 600 miles regardless of your reservoir (1000km in EU to the nearest 50 sounds probable), and is a countdown before the engine will fail to start. This is not related to the amount of AdBlue in the reservoir (mine was full), it is indicating a fault with the AdBlue system which requires attention immediately (injector, pump, etc). I’m guessing the engine can run indefinitely with faults in the AdBlue system, so this countdown is there to force the owner to get it resolved. To be clear, this amber flashing gear + refill icon cannot be resolved by topping up the AddBlue. When I entered the cheat code (above), the orange icon disappeared and the countdown was replaced with the standard AdBlue countdown - and mine reverted from the amber 450 miles to the standard white display showing 5500 miles (again, because I was full or very nearly - I believe the max is 6000 miles).

- Two prior issues I had with the van now appear to be resolved!
1) I always had a vibration around 44mph when the van shifts down into 7th gear. When my van sat low in a gear, the van would vibrate/shutter, enough that I went mental with fabric tape to eliminate every rattle in the cab area and camper area. This was part of my motivation for the remap. I thought changing the power profile would resolve this. When it would annoy me, I’d manually move my DSG down to 6th and it would smooth out when running at higher RPM. With the new turbo, this is gone!
2) When parking/maneuvering the van at low speed and sometimes idling, I would get a noticeable whirring sound from the engine. I suspected it was the turbo. Guys at the garage said they hadn’t heard it before but it could be “back pressure on the turbo because the engine is idling at a low speed”. They thought it was of no concern. With the new turbo, this is now gone, too!

- I now suspect this turbo has been failing for 2 years+. Was the small turbo slowing/getting stuck at low RPM? Or are both issues due to the split vacuum hose I mentioned earlier? (I now know this vacuum hose was to a sensor which would indicate boost pressure… or something… but not actually feeding the turbo.)

- My final hope is that some aspect of this turbo failure has caused my excessive oil usage. The garage says the engine exterior is “bone dry” with no indication of an oil leak. I had observed that oil usage was higher for start/stop urban driving, and far lower for motorway miles. The turbo is in higher demand for acceleration than constant speed, so this has me hoping there’s a connection which will now mean this is resolved. I’ll just have to wait and see!

All Google searches around the T6 already point to this forum. Hopefully these observations help someone else. I had searched up the vibration and whirring sound ages ago and couldn’t find anyone else with that experience. This might help someone down the line!

 

[catfood12]

I would definitely remove the map.

Go back to stock.

The 204 has more than enough power on the stock map.

TS done the same, removed the map.

 

[RunDSG]

Update:

1) The orange AdBlue alert returned on a motorway journey, but only for a few minutes and disappeared again. I managed to do a Carista scan and got these two codes: 33262 and 31103 - Manufacturer specific codes. Rescanning a couple days later, 33262 cleared and 31103 remained. The orange adblue error never returned. I returned the van to the garage to investigate. The garage wanted to replace DPF filter at £1700 for the DPF and £500 for labour.

2) There seemed to be some light smoke from the exhaust on revving the engine. I asked the garage to remove my Revo remap to eliminate any effect it might be having. Seems like Revo policy is that the remap can be removed and replaced for the cost of labour. They store your VIN.

3) I collected the van to consider my options. I've been surprised at how little difference the remap actually made. I've not missed it. The DPF related fault codes have now cleared with no sign of the Adblue error. I'm monitoring the soot level of the DPF and it never seems to get very high. No issues with regeneration. Now I'm wondering if I even need to follow up on this issue anymore.

I remain worried about the oil usage. I haven't had the van back long enough to notice any drop in oil. I'm worried the root problem is scoring of the cylinders causing the oil usage, and that the oil is causing the exhaust fumes to cause my DPF and turbo issues. Should I just invest in a new engine now, before my engine ruins another turbo?

Fingers crossed the oil usage issue is resolved (hopeful but unlikely) or at least doesn't get worse (I've put 20k miles on the van without it getting worse).

 

[Dellmassive]

sounds good.

i say just keep going untill something else breaks.

then when it breaks just fix it.

+++++++++++++

getting a second or recon engine has its own risks, ( unkown history, condition and wear )

at least with your engine you know whats what.

you may have years of trouble free motoring.



+++++++++++++

 

[robbidoo]

Adding to this thread as it's quite recent and I've had very similar issues.

2017 T6 204 DSG - also had small turbo failure at 99K miles. Symptoms were a whistling noise under any throttle from idle - sounded like a boost leak. These were sporadic over 2 days and only ~30 miles after which something went "pop" and this turned out to be the small turbo failing.

New full bi-turbo unit replaced by indie. £2400 part and a load of labour as OP suggests. Garage suggests it looks like mechanical failure of the small turbo shaft, no signs of excessive oil, burned tips or anything unusual.

I have a question - can anyone recommend somewhere to talk to about the turbo (I have the failed unit) who could have a proper look and determine cause of failure please?

 

[Mark livo]

Sorry, I've been away.

My replacement turbo was supplied by Turbo Diesel London, who specialise in rebuilt turbos and I only went that route because Volkswagen quoted a 12 week lead time and as a work van, that wasn't suitable.

However, and I say that word very loudly.
I would strongly advise against buying a used or so called 'rebuilt' turbo for the bi-turbo, because mine had to come back off 2 more times to fix faults with the turbo that was meant to be 'rebuilt' and each time this happened, it cost me a day and a half in Labour rates, and more down time for the van. If I ever had this issue again, I'd only fit genuine and new, personally.

The van was finally sorted but by then I'd lost all confidence in her and sadly had no option but to change it for a new one.
Mine had done 145k and also Revo mapped, but my map had was installed for 80k, so I'm not blaming the mapping. From general research, I found that many turbos have a life of around 125k, even if meticulously maintained, so I kind of put this down to a wear and tear item, only I went right around the houses to fix mine, when I should of just hired a van and sucked up the lead time from Volkswagen. I may still have the van now if I'd of done that.

Hi there,im a newbie so sorry if i have not asked my question in the right format,i have had problems with my turbo,shaft broke on small turbo,noticed the variable veins were siezed solid,no vaccum leaks all actuators working,new genuine egr and all 5 pressure sensors replaced pierburg,and still coil light comes on at about 2500 rpm,i too purchased [REFURB] from turbo diesel london,and pretty sceptical if this was rebuilt properly,any advise would be appreciated.

 

[DXX]

Monitor oil quality with oil analysis, disable STOP / START and being careful not to stop an engine after heavy acceleration would help prolong turbocharger life.
Carbon contamination from EGR and fuel dilution from DPF re-generations is resulting in very poor quality oil before the oil change is scheduled.
STOP / START is repeatedly stopping oil feed while the turbochargers are still spinning at high RPM, the more aggressively the vehicle is driven the worse the oil starvation.
There are many good reasons why industrial type turbochargers have their own stand alone lubrication systems, the auto industry solution seems to be make the vehicle complicated but not deal with the longevity of the lump that keeps it going forward.

 

[RunDSG]

Update:

I could go on for ages, but here’s where I’m at after everything.

Turbo replaced, as described in much detail above. Seems to be functioning fine.
DPF now replaced. This was a pain in the a$$. New DPF from VW is £1700+VAT, but on back-order and not easy to get. I went with a refurbished DPF at £1200+VAT. They claim it’s as good as new, should last forever, and they have a warranty.

So far so good! I hope I’m out of the weeds.

I’ll tolerate the oil usage on my 204ps and keep it topped up. I hear from all sides that this is typical.

I hope this is the end of my turbo and DPF woes. I’m £5500 poorer but still absolutely loving my van. It’s totally bloody irrational, I know.

 

[Andnik]

Seems I may be joining the 204 Turbo Camp as I used a lot of oil to get to Scotland from Barcelona.....recently.

Might have been failing a long time as I also had a 100% Blocked DPF a year ago and have been having to reset emissions codes regularly .....considering a Turbo swap before the whole engine.

Does anyone know what the part number is for the latest revision on the Turbo is?

@RunDSG do you have the Turbo that was removed? was it obvious that oil was escaping @ the small turbo?

 

[DXX]

I’m starting to wonder which comes first the blocked DPF or the failed turbocharger?

If a turbocharger rotor fails it will almost certainly dump oil into the exhaust under pressure and block the DPF, this can be a gradual process or a catastrophic sudden failure.

If a DPF is creating excessive exhaust back pressure due to failed re-generations that same pressure will act on the turbocharger exhaust turbine seal and create back pressure acting against the turbocharger oil feed. In addition the pressure will act in the opposite direction on the turbocharger compressor oil seal blowing oil into the induction system which in turn is partially combusted with the resulting soot further clogging the DPF.

If you know that the DPF is clogging beyond specified limits my advice would be to get it rectified urgently before it causes turbocharger damage.
Ideally there would be an actuator activated waste gate or mechanical PRV between the exhaust turbine and the DPF.

 

[FerrisBFW]

Update:

I could go on for ages, but here’s where I’m at after everything.

Turbo replaced, as described in much detail above. Seems to be functioning fine.
DPF now replaced. This was a pain in the a$$. New DPF from VW is £1700+VAT, but on back-order and not easy to get. I went with a refurbished DPF at £1200+VAT. They claim it’s as good as new, should last forever, and they have a warranty.

So far so good! I hope I’m out of the weeds.

I’ll tolerate the oil usage on my 204ps and keep it topped up. I hear from all sides that this is typical.

I hope this is the end of my turbo and DPF woes. I’m £5500 poorer but still absolutely loving my van. It’s totally bloody irrational, I know.

these expensive service and repair bills are here to stay. 12m ago I had a service on my five year old 30k miles L200, it came to £2k. In the four years I owned this vehicle and did 20k miles I never had a service under £850 a year. This oil consumption on BiTDI's seem normal as soon as the milage creeps up. Mind you I was chatting to a guy a while back with a 204 45k miles going through the same 1ltr per 1000m or less. My knackered old 180 doesnt drink this much

 

[RunDSG]

Seems I may be joining the 204 Turbo Camp as I used a lot of oil to get to Scotland from Barcelona.....recently.

Might have been failing a long time as I also had a 100% Blocked DPF a year ago and have been having to reset emissions codes regularly .....considering a Turbo swap before the whole engine.

Does anyone know what the part number is for the latest revision on the Turbo is?

@RunDSG do you have the Turbo that was removed? was it obvious that oil was escaping @ the small turbo?

Sorry to hear, matey.

In short…
- Both turbo and DPF appeared to fail at the same time. I’d love to know which came first. I suspect turbo.
- Van in limp mode.
- I had no DPF issues prior.
- Small turbo had failed. I don’t know about oil escaping. I have the turbo, but not entirely sure what I’m looking for, or whether it would still present.
- Replacing turbo allowed engine to run properly again. DPF errors could be cleared but returned after a while. Not immediately.
- Replaced DPF. Errors all gone. Van is driving exactly how it was before the failure. Hoping I won’t repeat this. Nearly £6,000.

 

[malc s]

well peoples I have (very reluctantly) joined the failed turbo 204 / remap club.
2017 204 dsg with Revo remap on circa 46k miles failed last month with engine warning light and limp mode. Took into specialists and various fault codes and 'turbo noise', diagnosed as failure/problem with small turbo and require replacement ( whole unit) and then see if other fault codes clear - dpf/egr etc...
It is regularly serviced and I would admit I do not drive like anyone's granny but for this failure /cost etc is a big disappointment. Hope to get it back this week (after 41/2 weeks in garage)..

 

[MikeyBeeT6]

I was going to make a new post, but thought maybe best to add to the pool of information here.

My van: 2017 204 BiTDI at 101k, no remap (that i'm aware of).

I've covered about 3-4k miles since owning it for the past 2 years. I use it for family trips and my band. So I'd say 90% of it's usage is on the motorway for me, and I was told it lived on the motorway with the previous owner too.

The van has burnt a bit of oil. I've possibly topped it up with a 1ltr can on 3 occasions maybe since I've got it.

A couple of months ago the van went into limp mode not too long after a light in the cabin was left on overnight. The battery was dead and it was struggling to start. It was diagnosed as a fault with my alternator and battery and a 'low voltage' & 'failed battery charge' code being read I believe. Both were replaced and the van started and drove absolutely fine for a few miles and then back into limp mode. No odd noises or bangs etc.

I drove it from Blackpool to Barnsley and back for a gig whilst in limp mode, I couldn't bail on the venue with a days notice and had it booked in with an auto electrician (as suggested by the first garage).

In the meantime a friend plugged into the van and got the following codes:
P00AF00 "Turbocharger/supercharger boost control 'A' module. Performance"
P256300 "Turbocharger boost control position sensor circuit. Range/performance"

The auto electrician said the DPF was blocked beyond regening (likely because of my trip to Barnsley and lack of regens due to limp mode) and that I needed to get it removed and cleaned or replaced before he could properly diagnose the problem.

I spoke to a few places to sort this and a VW specialist garage said they would try to do a forced regen which I was told was successful and cleared the problem. However, they told me there was a problem with the turbo and it was going back into limp mode under hard acceleration. They told me if it went into limp mode, restarting the van would clear the code. This happened on one occasion, and restarting indeed cleared the fault. I was told if I drove it reasonably it would be fine, and the turbo would not be affected, but to fix the fault would be circa £2.5k to have the turbo sent off and rebuilt.

I thought it would tide me over until I could afford the repairs but only a couple of weeks later of casual driving and it's back in limp mode and will not clear. The DPF light flashed for a brief moment this time, which has since gone away..?

I feel like it needs further diagnosis, but I'm unsure how to proceed.

I'm aware the turbo is difficult to access, so I assume physical checks on the turbo will be last resort?
Can somebody easily check the condition of the DPF?
Should I get the auto electrician back on board first?
It may need another forced regen, but at £100 a pop is there any point when something else may be at fault?

It's odd because between going into limp mode the van drove as it always has, no lack of power etc. but I fear both DPF and turbo may be on the edge.

Hoping some of you can weigh in and assist! Thanks in advance.

 

[Mark livo]

I guess it's my turn?

Driving up to Caravan and Camping Show, coil light starts flashing, ad blue suddenly low (topped up fully one week prior), no power. Engine temp fine, oil fine, engine sounds fine. Turned around and went home.

Brought to a VAG specialist garage, they say:
- split vacuum hose, repaired
- seized small turbo, needs rebuilding or replacement (apparently VW part is £2,400 - I plan to check TPS myself)
- best to rebuild large turbo at same time
- can't see why turbo failed
- £2,300 - £3,000 for rebuilt turbos, oil/filter change, labour, including VAT.

It is just me, or is this f***ing mental.

Worth knowing.
- Revo remap done by same company 1 year ago.
- Van has always (in my ownership - 2 years) used up to 1L of oil per 1,000 miles.
- I had a odd whine/whirring sound from the turbos before, when manoeuvring the van. Mechanic listened to it... decided it wasn't a concern. Backpressure or something...
- I'm at about 125,000 miles.
- I drive slower than your grandma. I mean it. I set the cruise at 55 or 60 and chill.

I've read as much I can from similar discussions here - vans with similar symptoms and the solutions.

This post about hot oil leaking through with the exhaust gasses melting the turbo fin tips is interesting. I wonder if this is the work I need doing.

2017 204 oil consumption issues [Resolved]

Hi all Im new to the transporter game, I have had this issue also on my 67 plate sportline I bought back in January. It failed the consumption test last week ( managed 140 miles before the oil light came on ) and have been told it’s a new engine job. I luckily have a couple of weeks warranty...

www.t6forum.com

The money is a wind up... but TBH, I was waiting for my turn, whether it be DPF, EGR, DMF... I'm most concerned about getting my engine sorted so that I can again be fully confident in its reliability. Big plans for Holland, Germany, Switzerland, Italy and beyond this summer... I need to be able to trust.

Do you have any wisdom to share?
- Are these figures about right?
- Should I bring my T6 to a VW van centre? (Not close and possibly not safe to drive there.)
- Why am I using so much oil? How do I fix this?
- Why has my turbo failed?
- Am I better off with a new turbo or a rebuilt one?
- If I source a turbo directly from TPS, will I save money?

Oh, my fault codes according to Carista.

P0299 (Pending) - Turbocharger/Supercharger "A" underboost condition

Vehicle specific fault codes for the engine:
23957
25958
33262
31103

Thanks in advance for wisdom and advice.

View attachment 191740

Had a customer with exactly the same problem,his dpf was totally blocked and caused his turbo to sieze on the variable veins,first we purchased a turbo from london turbos....NEVER AGAIN...total rip off merchant,eventually took turbo to midland turbo,who rebuilt it at half the price,and now my customer who remains a friend is so pleased with it,done 2000 miles and still going strong,not too bad a job to do,especially when we had it on and off 3 times due to london turbos...in the end got it down to 5 hours to replace and running.

 

[Sparkyis]

So…. At 129,000 my bi- turbo gave up. 2017 lwb kombi 204 dsg CXEB engine. I have the common reasonably high oil usage but not over 1l per 100miles but as it seemed so common I just lived with it and used Millers oils as recommended which I think lowered the consumption a bit! Anyway, after an hour run on the motorway on the way home with a load of wood, there was a slight “whoosh” accompanied by the flashing coil light and limp mode. Engine sounded fine otherwise and I needed to drive the 5 mins to get the wood home. Parked up, unloaded, turned off engine. Left the van to cool for an hour then hoped it would “clear itself”!!! So started up accompanied by sound like glass in a bag being shaken, start/ stop warning on dash but general engine tickover sounding ok. Self- diagnosed as probably the turbo- I think whatever got destroyed the bits were stuck to the outer edges of the turbo by centripetal force but as soon as engine stopped then parts fell due to gravity and hence the awful jangling noise on start up again! Turned the engine off rapidly and decided NOT to start and drive again due to risk of metal etc getting places it shouldn’t.
Got the van recovered to VW commercial rather than regular mechanic for full diagnosis.
ANYWAY…they say the turbo is gone as suspected, I’m going full new turbo after @Tourershine story!
I got them to check EGR cooler- they say soot levels are a little high but this may burn off after turbo fitted and restart but they are willing to flush because they agreed like me I don’t want to destroy a new turbo and the work will be warranted by them. If soot remains high they’ll flush. They also checked DPF soot levels which seemed normal.
VW thought I was “extremely knowledgeable” about this- thanks forum, I explained you guys are how I was aware of all this stuff and other links in the chain which I’m worried about!
Anyway, I left it with them to sort with the message that anything else in there causing this issue (if not just normal wear at 129,000 miles as suggested here) needs to be sorted whilst they have it all pulled apart.
We’ll see in the next few days if anything else comes up.

MY QUESTION: apart from checking EGR cooler and DPF, are there any other items which I should get them to look at during the repair that I’m not aware of to, as much as possible, prevent any future problems in the engine/ turbo/ exhaust gas system? Thanks in advance!

 

[Dellmassive]

Great work so far.

Have you got a quote for the works yet?

For parts and labour?

But with the main dealers rates for labour the wallet may disagree.

Will be very interesting to see the quote, and for reference for any of us that decided to go to a local indy to get the same done.

Must admit for an new biturbo my gut instinct is to go with the main dealer,... Especially as it comes with a 2year warranty.

I seem to remember prices around 6-8k being mentioned.

 

[WinFreak]

So…. At 129,000 my bi- turbo gave up. 2017 lwb kombi 204 dsg CXEB engine. I have the common reasonably high oil usage but not over 1l per 100miles but as it seemed so common I just lived with it and used Millers oils as recommended which I think lowered the consumption a bit! Anyway, after an hour run on the motorway on the way home with a load of wood, there was a slight “whoosh” accompanied by the flashing coil light and limp mode. Engine sounded fine otherwise and I needed to drive the 5 mins to get the wood home. Parked up, unloaded, turned off engine. Left the van to cool for an hour then hoped it would “clear itself”!!! So started up accompanied by sound like glass in a bag being shaken, start/ stop warning on dash but general engine tickover sounding ok. Self- diagnosed as probably the turbo- I think whatever got destroyed the bits were stuck to the outer edges of the turbo by centripetal force but as soon as engine stopped then parts fell due to gravity and hence the awful jangling noise on start up again! Turned the engine off rapidly and decided NOT to start and drive again due to risk of metal etc getting places it shouldn’t.
Got the van recovered to VW commercial rather than regular mechanic for full diagnosis.
ANYWAY…they say the turbo is gone as suspected, I’m going full new turbo after @Tourershine story!
I got them to check EGR cooler- they say soot levels are a little high but this may burn off after turbo fitted and restart but they are willing to flush because they agreed like me I don’t want to destroy a new turbo and the work will be warranted by them. If soot remains high they’ll flush. They also checked DPF soot levels which seemed normal.
VW thought I was “extremely knowledgeable” about this- thanks forum, I explained you guys are how I was aware of all this stuff and other links in the chain which I’m worried about!
Anyway, I left it with them to sort with the message that anything else in there causing this issue (if not just normal wear at 129,000 miles as suggested here) needs to be sorted whilst they have it all pulled apart.
We’ll see in the next few days if anything else comes up.

MY QUESTION: apart from checking EGR cooler and DPF, are there any other items which I should get them to look at during the repair that I’m not aware of to, as much as possible, prevent any future problems in the engine/ turbo/ exhaust gas system? Thanks in advance!

I would keep a real good look at your regen frequency when you get it back with the new turbos on, the soot levels don't give a proper insight on how blocked the DPF can be with burnt oil and whatever else is in there. Mine went through the regens fine with 24g at the start and 6g at the end but then in no time it was back at 24g again and repeated the process.

A blocked or partially blocked DPF is likely what caused your turbo to fail, which you don't want to happen again!

I'm now waiting for a new one to be fitted to mine, then it's just hoping that all my adblue errors will finally be gone too

 

[Sparkyis]

Great work so far.

Have you got a quote for the works yet?

For parts and labour?

But with the main dealers rates for labour the wallet may disagree.

Will be very interesting to see the quote, and for reference for any of us that decided to go to a local indy to get the same done.

Must admit for an new biturbo my gut instinct is to go with the main dealer,... Especially as it comes with a 2year warranty.

I seem to remember prices around 6-8k being mentioned.

At the moment I have been quoted £4000, turbo unit being £2500 of that. The 4 grand includes vat. It didn’t make me happy but I thought it was the right ballpark…

 

[Sparkyis]

I would keep a real good look at your regen frequency when you get it back with the new turbos on, the soot levels don't give a proper insight on how blocked the DPF can be with burnt oil and whatever else is in there. Mine went through the regens fine with 24g at the start and 6g at the end but then in no time it was back at 24g again and repeated the process.

A blocked or partially blocked DPF is likely what caused your turbo to fail, which you don't want to happen again!

I'm now waiting for a new one to be fitted to mine, then it's just hoping that all my adblue errors will finally be gone too

This is what I’m concerned about and obviously trying to avoid more costly repair so when all sorted may get DPF cleaned…gonna have to do another search here to check success rates of this…