Diesel - Normal Or Premium
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The premium vs supermarket fuel debate will go on for ever, on every vehicle related forum, with around the same results as above.
All I know is I've run several diesels to super high mileage, including a 2006 Vivaro which were notorious for fuel related problems, and this did 300k without a single issue.
Maybe I am wasting my dosh, and maybe it is a placebo, but I get double points on all my reward cards, which pay for Christmas day, boxing day, and new years day dinner every year, and I get to feel I'm giving my vehicles the best they deserve for what I demand of them, and what they earn me. Plus I know anyone following my vehicles doesn't have to switch on the re-circ button because I stink of poor maintenance and crap fuel. Only flowers and freshly cut grass from my vehicle ass
All I know is I've run several diesels to super high mileage, including a 2006 Vivaro which were notorious for fuel related problems, and this did 300k without a single issue.
Maybe I am wasting my dosh, and maybe it is a placebo, but I get double points on all my reward cards, which pay for Christmas day, boxing day, and new years day dinner every year, and I get to feel I'm giving my vehicles the best they deserve for what I demand of them, and what they earn me. Plus I know anyone following my vehicles doesn't have to switch on the re-circ button because I stink of poor maintenance and crap fuel. Only flowers and freshly cut grass from my vehicle ass
The premium vs supermarket fuel debate will go on for ever, on every vehicle related forum, with around the same results as above.
All I know is I've run several diesels to super high mileage, including a 2006 Vivaro which were notorious for fuel related problems, and this did 300k without a single issue.
Maybe I am wasting my dosh, and maybe it is a placebo, but I get double points on all my reward cards, which pay for Christmas day, boxing day, and new years day dinner every year, and I get to feel I'm giving my vehicles the best they deserve for what I demand of them, and what they earn me. Plus I know anyone following my vehicles doesn't have to switch on the re-circ button because I stink of poor maintenance and crap fuel. Only flowers and freshly cut grass from my vehicle ass
Um, forgive me but I don't think you actually mention which fuel you use. Can I assume premium?
Shell V power for me on all my motors but that's mainly down to only doing lots of short journeys (and speaking with a guy who works in the oil refinery industry). Never had any issues even on cars with know dpf, etc problems. Could just be luck or the fuel? Due to my low miles the small extra cost is worth the peace of mind it brings.
I have a 2001 A4 1.9TDI with over 200K miles on the clock, it’s never had any engine issues from new and still goes as well as when new. It’s only been fed with the cheapest Diesel available.
A guy I know runs his old van on the cheapest cooking oil from Tescos but I’m not willing to go that far!
A guy I know runs his old van on the cheapest cooking oil from Tescos but I’m not willing to go that far!
I won't get into a fuel debate but will comment on this thread, a 2001 1.9 tdi and 'an old van' are very different animals when compared to our T6's.
The all diesel engines will run on pretty much any oil based fuel, the problem only occurs with more highly stressed/complex engines when you want reliability and low overall running costs which are not to be confused with low fuel costs.
My technical background is with a vehicle manufacturer who is very close to the road fuel supply industry and believe me when I have seen all sorts of fuels used with (sometimes) disastrous results.
My personal choice is to use ordinary fuel from any of the main brands and never use supermarket fuel as it is blended to a price (that's why it's cheaper)
Theres nothing wrong with the high power fuel but IMO its not worth the premium as standard fuel is plenty good enough.
I'm not trying to be condescending to anyone but merely share the benefit a bit of industry insight.
Having worked in the oil & gas industry (getting it out of the ground and the refineries) and automotive industry (designer and manufacturer of diesel engines), I have no issues using bog standard 'branded' fuel or that from a supermarket. As Dellmassive points out, it's all EN590.........it also all comes from the same refineries.
I've filled up with premium in the past, because that pump was free and the others were occupied and I can honestly say performance wise it made absolutely no noticeable difference. Maybe if you only run on the premium stuff you get benefits then? Do you ever see HGVs running premium (genuine question)?
I'd rather use the money saved on bog standard fuel for an oil change every 10K/one year instead - your engine will probably appreciate that much more.
I've filled up with premium in the past, because that pump was free and the others were occupied and I can honestly say performance wise it made absolutely no noticeable difference. Maybe if you only run on the premium stuff you get benefits then? Do you ever see HGVs running premium (genuine question)?
I'd rather use the money saved on bog standard fuel for an oil change every 10K/one year instead - your engine will probably appreciate that much more.
Then you know that whilst it all comes from the same refineries the additives are added at the terminal where it is loaded into the delivery tanker, that’s what makes the difference between a good fuel and a not so good fuel.
You dont see HGV’s using it but as fuel is roughly a third of their operating cost they are very price sensitive and they do have their fair share of fuel problems caused by bad fuel (those that buy bulk see much worse quality issues than we will see - such as B50 sold as EN590)
I agree about the extra oil drain though
There are other considerations from my perspective. I accept that regular usage and a reasonable amount at speed should keep the EGR and DPF clean but what if you do a lower mileage, little motorway speeds, and quite a bit of mixed urban driving and cruising on A roads at the typical 45-55 speed range.
For the above I would have thought the additives would benefit keeping the internals clean. Or am I wrong?
Another question, premium petrol has a higher octane rating - does premium diesel have a higher cetane rating and if it does does it make a difference to performance?
For the above I would have thought the additives would benefit keeping the internals clean. Or am I wrong?
Another question, premium petrol has a higher octane rating - does premium diesel have a higher cetane rating and if it does does it make a difference to performance?
A couple of colleagues of mine are ex tanker drivers and they also stated that they were responsible for selecting the additives that the customers required at the loading stage.
Something to consider though. The difference in a 70 litre tank between filling with standard diesel and premium diesel is about £4.20. (6p per litre, roughly)
Redex fuel additive regularly appears on offer at supermarkets for £2 for a 250ml bottle. If you use 1 bottle a tank, (double dosing) it displaces 250 ml of fuel. About 30p worth. So the Redex then costs the equivalent of £1.70 a bottle.
So adding your own Redex to standard diesel is £2.50(ish) a tank cheaper than using premuim diesel.
Something to consider though. The difference in a 70 litre tank between filling with standard diesel and premium diesel is about £4.20. (6p per litre, roughly)
Redex fuel additive regularly appears on offer at supermarkets for £2 for a 250ml bottle. If you use 1 bottle a tank, (double dosing) it displaces 250 ml of fuel. About 30p worth. So the Redex then costs the equivalent of £1.70 a bottle.
So adding your own Redex to standard diesel is £2.50(ish) a tank cheaper than using premuim diesel.
Then you know that whilst it all comes from the same refineries the additives are added at the terminal where it is loaded into the delivery tanker, that’s what makes the difference between a good fuel and a not so good fuel.
You dont see HGV’s using it but as fuel is roughly a third of their operating cost they are very price sensitive and they do have their fair share of fuel problems caused by bad fuel (those that buy bulk see much worse quality issues than we will see - such as B50 sold as EN590)
I agree about the extra oil drain though
It's all good fuel - it all meets EN590 which is what your engine has been designed and calibrated to run on. I didn't realise they still had different additives though (except for the 'premium' range) or is that specific to your local refinery?
You have confirmed my expectations about HGVs not using premium. If the price of this fuel was offset by improved mpg and engine/fuel system maintenance they would most likely be running it; the downtime cost for a tractor unit is too high not to be running the most suitable fuel. These tractor units are putting on huge amounts of miles so if bog standard diesel works for them, it's good enough for our little vans too.
Biodiesel is a different subject though and given the choice of B5, B10, B15 etc you should always go for the one with the lowest number!
But before the additives are added it isn't EN590, its Diesel fuel to a lesser spec and EN590 isn't a fuel, its a specification with minimum and sometimes maximum limits for each specified area, an example would be the cetane number that has to be a minimum of 51 but your van would be much happier at 54 - 55.
It's a bit like saying a van is a van and they are all the same regardless of who makes them, as we know there are good vans and not so good vans with even the good ones being bad sometimes.
HGV Diesel engines are completely different matter as this is my specialist subject, with larger displacements they are much lower revving and spend a much larger percentage of their time at a very high duty cycle, the same rules do not really apply although they do to a certain extent as some of the benefits of Premium will be there although these wouldn't justify the extra cost.
As to bio, you should only go for what is approved for your engine and nothing else, interestingly EN590 is already a B7 fuel and has been for around 2 years now so you wont be able to get B5 for a road vehicle anymore.
Interestingly diesel fuel has a shelf life these days and is a also now classified as a flammable liquid, both a result of the introduction of Bio which basically partially turns to water & has lowered the flash point of Diesel below the flammable liquid trigger point. There are still tanks with WW2 fuel on some military bases and that fuel is still in good condition and very useable - modern diesel wouldn't be, even after 5 years.
What we should or shouldn't use in our vans isn't a debate really as we can put anything we want in our own vans, just don't complain if you buy cheap and then have problems.
So - in yours you say you use ordinary fuel which I assume is standard diesel. Do you ever use premium?
I am asking as my new to me T6 Exec is 8 months old with nearly 9k on the clock and was used by Bentley, I assume to ferry prospective customers around. I just want to make sure everything is in perfect condition and ensure the DPF is clear after a few fast runs I have planned on motorways here and in France next month.
Do you consider premium fuel is worth the extra cost for 8-10k per annum
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