Fridges & Cold Beer -- How I Done It --

[Another planet]

What he said... You feed cable is causing voltage drop when the fridge locks in.

Run a beefy 12v feed and you will be good. Remember to use the chassis as the NEG.

See here...

Diagrams, Schematics & Wires -- How I Done It --

Diagrams, Schematics & Wires -- How I Done It -- ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...

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6mm cable or above with 20A MAXI fuse.

That s twin 1.3mm2...

Not 6mm.

They might be using the second core for the ground.

So cable is too thin as we thought .

Volt drop over cable the battery voltage dropping over night

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View attachment 239538

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That's cable from fridge to 12v socket. Converters advise they would have used minimum of 20 amp cable from LB to 12v socket by tailgate

 

[TallPaul_S]

That's cable from fridge to 12v socket. Converters advise they would have used minimum of 20 amp cable from LB to 12v socket by tailgate

20amp cable is 1.5mm². Not big enough for a lengthy run from the passenger to the tailgate area, probably 3 or 4 metres at least, for a fridge.

It's pretty standard for low amp 12v stuff, I'm using 1.5mm² for short runs, and 2mm² for my run to the boot area, (several metres long) and for a 5a LED it's perfectly fine. Sop the converters have done nothing wrong, pretty much everyone will use 1.5 or 2mm² cable for 12v sockets. But for a fridge, you need 4mm² minimum on a short run, have a 6m run and you'll need 8mm² or 10mm2.


So, your choices are:

1. Move the fridge closer to the battery and use a 12v socket with as short a run to the battery as possible
2. Install a dedicated fridge cable run, of 8mm2 cable, direct from battery (fused), with negative on the chassis close to where the fridge is. Then replace the cigarette lighter plug on the fridge wire with something beefier, like an Anderson plug.
3. Both the above!

 

[Another planet]

20amp cable is 1.5mm². Not big enough for a lengthy run from the passenger to the tailgate area, probably 3 or 4 metres at least, for a fridge.

It's pretty standard for low amp 12v stuff, I'm using 1.5mm² for short runs, and 2mm² for my run to the boot area, (several metres long) and for a 5a LED it's perfectly fine. Sop the converters have done nothing wrong, pretty much everyone will use 1.5 or 2mm² cable for 12v sockets. But for a fridge, you need 4mm² minimum on a short run, have a 6m run and you'll need 8mm² or 10mm2.


So, your choices are:

1. Move the fridge closer to the battery and use a 12v socket with as short a run to the battery as possible
2. Install a dedicated fridge cable run, of 8mm2 cable, direct from battery (fused), with negative on the chassis close to where the fridge is. Then replace the cigarette lighter plug on the fridge wire with something beefier, like an Anderson plug.
3. Both the above!

Thank you very much. Moving the fridge is not really an option as it sits on Ovano tray that slides out of the tailgate. I have been in touch with the converters who are sure the cable they installed would be sufficient and they wonder if the 12v socket is damaged. That could make sense as fridge did originally work. The converters are reputable and it was 3 years ago that electrics, leisure battery, solar etc was done so they can't remember exactly what was used. I have booked the van back in with them to figure it out - just gotta wait 6 weeks. Thank you and @Dellmassive again for all the help, I really appreciate it - I nearly went and bought a new fridge!

 

[TallPaul_S]

Thank you very much. Moving the fridge is not really an option as it sits on Ovano tray that slides out of the tailgate. I have been in touch with the converters who are sure the cable they installed would be sufficient and they wonder if the 12v socket is damaged. That could make sense as fridge did originally work. The converters are reputable and it was 3 years ago that electrics, leisure battery, solar etc was done so they can't remember exactly what was used. I have booked the van back in with them to figure it out - just gotta wait 6 weeks. Thank you and @Dellmassive again for all the help, I really appreciate it - I nearly went and bought a new fridge!

What leisure battery do you have?

The fact that it's only happening at night, means that the solar is increasing the surface voltage of the battery during the day so any voltage drops is from a higher level. It could be that your battery is on its way out.

If you can measure what the battery voltage drops to (at the terminals) when the fridge kicks in (with no solar charge), you might find the voltage is dropping down to a lot, which combined with any voltage drop from the wiring, is causing the issue. Which means as the battery has aged, the issue has gotten worse. And with the battery healthy, any voltage drop in the wiring wasn't an issue, but a failing battery voltage drop and the wiring voltage drop combined is making it cut out.

 

[roadtripper]

they wonder if the 12v socket is damaged. That could make sense as fridge did originally work

I've certainly seen wear on the sockets, particularly around the centre pin. They were never intended as general purpose power sockets and it shows sadly.

If you're only using the feed to power the fridge I'd look to get it converted to something more dedicated like an Anderson SB50 or PowerPole range.

If you want to retain some flexibility you could always get a decent 12v car extension lead, chop in half and wire to additional Anderson connectors, then you have converters both ways if you need to plug something else into the van occasionally or.plig the fridge into another car.

 

[Dellmassive]

It's 2024 now and the camping season is about to start.

Reading back over this thread from it's humble beginnings on 2018 a lot has changed in the fridge and beer cooling market.

These days a lot of the fridge's come with a BT app, which is great in my opinion. But seen as gimmicky by some.

Duel zone or twin compartment fridges are now a thing... Where they are physically separated. So you can now truly have a 4degc fridge and -22degc freezer in one.... Nice. Though these tend to be the larger sizes.

Built in battery's are now a thing...which is great as you can run them off grid completey, for a short while as the batteries tend to be small. But defo enough for a trip to the beach or a few hours on the awning. But as with all great things there is trade off, and in this case it's fridge capacity. Basically you loose the fridge capacity that the battery bank takes. ( Or the Fridge capacity stays the same but the fridge outer dimensions get bigger)

Wheels and slide out roller handles are now a thing, which makes it much easier to get a fridge full of beers about and out to the van, but it will still take two of you to lift it up..... Unless you are He-Man.

Sliding trays are not a new thing, but are becoming more popular as time goes on... They are a staple diet with out Auz cousins and mainly apply to a fixed location on the van. Having the ability to slide out the fridge get your beers then slide it back in allows you to build the van tightly around the space maximizing what you can get in the van.... Most sliders slide out the back doors.. but I've now seen some fixed by the side door and also in a trailer !

....


Going back to basics there have been improvements in the cooler box space from the likes of Yeti and other ... Which now produce eye wateringly expensive cooler boxes with super dense foam walls and rubber lid gaskets... They are quoting 36hr plus for ice. So we'll see where that goes.

I must admit they do look good, I'll get one at some point to do a good test, most likely the smaller size box.

So have a great 2024 season and remember to keep those beers cold.

If you come to any of the T6FORUM events this year, come find me and bring me a cold beer and I'll test your fridges beer chilling abilities..... You might even get a sticker.

And Remember - Be Excellent to each other.

 

[roadtripper]

For all I love tech and gadgets I was doing 3 day reenactment event weekends off a classic Coleman chest cooler using the ice management techniques I posted here.

After that we upgraded to a 3 way fridge Domestic Combicool RC1210 that ran off gas cartridges to actively cool, it's amazing how many camp packing favours you can call in when you have heavily chilled cans on the last day when most folk's ice is exhausted They're great fridges, totally silent and run for about a day on a cartridge, we swapped them every morning and used the rest for cooking that day. Utter pants on the 12v though, it's only suitable to hold an already cold fridge at temperature when the engine is running.



As the younguns arrived we've not done much more reenacting but we've had a series of Peltier type powered cool boxes for roadtrips and motel camping. They work but are best used with ice as well for longer trips, but they're good to move food from home to apartment. Noisy though and voracious consumption of battery without mains/engine. We still use our CampingGaz one as it fits just perfectly in the centre of the rear seats in railway table layout in our Caravelle, but most of the time it's unpowered and just a coolbox.

Thanks to the forum influence last season I decided it was time to go compressor. I'd always liked the idea and often sailed with a friend who had a (then) 4 figure car camping fridge freezer but could never justify it. One offer later I got the Alpicool P18. Initially I was very cynical and thought it might be a massive compromise because of the space we had to fit it in, along with wasted space in a battery bay and a Bluetooth app, but every time I've used it I've liked it more and more. In depth (and ongoing) review over here.

Sorry that turned into a bit of a ramble but I guess my point is tech is cool but let's not forget that folks were going away for a week in a field in a T2 just fine when the word lithium only meant medication or a fancy grease. Our family holiday used to be 2 caravans in a farmers field with the only fuel being 2 CampingGaz 907s that powered the stove, fridge and a gaslight (yes really, I'm not that old either!) backed up by 2 12v fluorescent tube fittings that whined softly and had an end of the world light that worked from 2 croc clips on the car battery.

I think today camping can be a much more "home from home" experience (and there's nothing wrong with that at all) but sometimes thinking of the other ways to manage ice, switch to tins and other ambient preservation can help the trip be more about the place and people and less about checking your phone due to battery range anxiety

 

[Justinjjs]

I've just purchased a 50LOutsunny from Aosom.com for £209.00 delivered. Can anyone suggest the best way to connect to a factory fitted leisure battery? Would the lead below be most suitable? I assume I'm better to connect direct to the leisure battery rather than the 12v dashboard socket? Thanks, Justin


View attachment 241357

 

[roadtripper]

I've just purchased a 50LOutsunny from Aosom.com for £209.00 delivered. Can anyone suggest the best way to connect to a factory fitted leisure battery? Would the lead below be most suitable? I assume I'm better to connect direct to the leisure battery rather than the 12v dashboard socket? Thanks, Justin


View attachment 241357

View attachment 241360

View attachment 241361

Traditionally at least one of the dash sockets (by the gear lever) is connected to the starter so don't use that.

If you have a second battery do you not have additional 12v sockets as part of the install?

 

[Dellmassive]

I've just purchased a 50LOutsunny from Aosom.com for £209.00 delivered. Can anyone suggest the best way to connect to a factory fitted leisure battery? Would the lead below be most suitable? I assume I'm better to connect direct to the leisure battery rather than the 12v dashboard socket? Thanks, Justin


View attachment 241357

View attachment 241360

View attachment 241361

that should be ok, but try to keep the cable length from the battery as sort as possible.

longer cable means more volt drop and may cause the fridge to alarm.

 

[Justinjjs]

Traditionally at least one of the dash sockets (by the gear lever) is connected to the starter so don't use that.

If you have a second battery do you not have additional 12v sockets as part of the install?

Yeh, I thought that was the case with the dash socket. This battery was installed by VW when the van was built and I haven’t found a second socket anywhere. Do they normally included one with the leisure battery addition?

 

[Justinjjs]

that should be ok, but try to keep the cable length from the battery as sort as possible.

longer cable means more volt drop and may cause the fridge to alarm.

Thanks, I bear that in mind about the length. I assume the 30amp fuse is sufficient protection for the fridge?

 

[Justinjjs]

that should be ok, but try to keep the cable length from the battery as sort as possible.

longer cable means more volt drop and may cause the fridge to alarm.

I’ve just measured the 12v lead that comes with the fridge and it’s 2.5m, when added to the 12v fused cable at 1.8m that’s just over 5m, do you think that’s too long I guess I could try and shorten it?

 

[roadtripper]

Yeh, I thought that was the case with the dash socket. This battery was installed by VW when the van was built and I haven’t found a second socket anywhere. Do they normally included one with the leisure battery addition?

What type and generation of van do you have?

Normally with a factory second battery any other sockets are supplied from that, including the top of dash socket.

I assume the 30amp fuse is sufficient protection for the fridge?

The fuse is to protect the cable, not the appliance. 12v sockets are usually fused at around 15amp but you shouldn't draw greater than 8amp continuous as they overheat.

Personally I'd look to use a mounted socket on the back of your seat base. If you have the factory battery there should be a small distro fuse board on it you can take a feed from and use the ground bolt for a neat install.

A flying lead is problematic with the normal 12v style socket and plugs, it makes it much easier for them to get knocked and the tip move off the contact.

 

[Justinjjs]

What type and generation of van do you have?

Thanks roadtripper, the van is a Kombi, 73 Plate, built in Jan 23.

Normally with a factory second battery any other sockets are supplied from that, including the top of dash socket.

Actually there are two, one in the front of the dash and the other to the left of the gear stick. Do you know which one will be wired to the leisure battery?

The fuse is to protect the cable, not the appliance. 12v sockets are usually fused at around 15amp but you shouldn't draw greater than 8amp continuous as they overheat.

Personally I'd look to use a mounted socket on the back of your seat base. If you have the factory battery there should be a small distro fuse board on it you can take a feed from and use the ground bolt for a neat install.

I guess that would be a better location for the fridge which will likely be in the back most of the time. I have captain swivel seats installed so space is pretty tight under there. When you say you would have the socket in the back of the seat, do you mean mounted in the cover at the bottom/rear that pulls off?

A flying lead is problematic with the normal 12v style socket and plugs, it makes it much easier for them to get knocked and the tip move off the contact.

Would an Anderson connection be a better option? I was thinking I could cut the end of the fridge 12V lead to make a tail (male Anderson conection) and then have a female tail from the leisure battery? Unless I can just plug into the cigarette socket near the gear stick and run a thicker lead to the fridge? Many Thanks!

 

[roadtripper]

If you are a recent 6.1 (~2 years) lots of people are finding that all the 12v sockets are now off the second battery if fitted at the factory, so that's likely the case for yours.

Yes the clip off rear cover was what I was thinking, though if you have the standard AGM battery it will be tight. There is a wiring channel in the floor between the 2 seats so if there is more space then other side that's an option, or many of the furniture/accessory suppliers do laminated ply backs to replace the covers, as those sit flat they give you a bit more space and are commonly used to mount sockets and switches.

I was going to suggest an Anderson. The SB50 is a popular one and you should be able to find a fused loom one made up. It's also flexible as you could use it to connect a maintenance charger or solar charger while camping. If space is at a premium the smaller PowerPole series are also commonly used.

If you go that route you are likely to fuse the Anderson lead quite high, so consider you may need a smaller fuse to protect the fridge lead. There should be one in the 12v plug so if you remove that to change the connector you might want to think about how best to fuse it.

On the plus side your fridge is one of the common multi branded one mostly marketed as Alpicool - so getting spares of the lead (and specific fridge connector) isn't too difficult if needed.

 

[Justinjjs]

If you are a recent 6.1 (~2 years) lots of people are finding that all the 12v sockets are now off the second battery if fitted at the factory, so that's likely the case for yours.

Yes the clip off rear cover was what I was thinking, though if you have the standard AGM battery it will be tight. There is a wiring channel in the floor between the 2 seats so if there is more space then other side that's an option, or many of the furniture/accessory suppliers do laminated ply backs to replace the covers, as those sit flat they give you a bit more space and are commonly used to mount sockets and switches.

Thanks for your help. Maybe in the short term I could get away without mounting a socket if I go down the Anderson connection route? I could keep it tucked behind the removable panel when it's not been used and the lead from the fridge could just tuck under the panel through a gap.

I was going to suggest an Anderson. The SB50 is a popular one and you should be able to find a fused loom one made up. It's also flexible as you could use it to connect a maintenance charger or solar charger while camping. If space is at a premium the smaller PowerPole series are also commonly used.

If you go that route you are likely to fuse the Anderson lead quite high, so consider you may need a smaller fuse to protect the fridge lead. There should be one in the 12v plug so if you remove that to change the connector you might want to think about how best to fuse it.

I like the idea of been able to charge the battery with a solar charger in the future. Would I need two connections to/from the battery if I wanted to charge at the same time as taking a feed for the fridge? I guess I need to get the seat out first to see what I've got to deal with. I guess I'm looking to try and connect the positive of the Anderson lead directly to the distro fuse board and negative to ground bolt. Where does the fuse for the Anderson lead go, is that from the fuse board and does it need a free space where the fuse and feed can come off? Hopefully it will make more sense when I can see the wiring with the seat out.

On the plus side your fridge is one of the common multi branded one mostly marketed as Alpicool - so getting spares of the lead (and specific fridge connector) isn't too difficult if needed.

Great, I noticed in the manual that the fridge has a battery protection mode where I can set it at "High" when the car is running and "Low" when it's not.

 

[roadtripper]

Yes a positively locking connector like an SB50 or PowerPole you could just leave a fly lead. Just make sure when you store it away there is no chance of a short across the terminals (they are reasonably protected - but you can get covers or an empty connector to make sure) and secure the cable to something in case it gets pulled (cable tie to seat base?) as you don't want any pull to be on the connectors to the battery/fuse board.

If you take out VIP membership then this is the diagram for the battery mounted fuse box and this is the one for earth point locations.

Generally lead acid batteries shouldn't be discharged below around 50% - which means around 12v - so I'd leave the battery protection on "H" most of the time, use "M" if you have to push it but be aware that with a cut out of 10.1v that's extremely low. I wouldn't use "L" at all.

 

[Justinjjs]

Yes a positively locking connector like an SB50 or PowerPole you could just leave a fly lead. Just make sure when you store it away there is no chance of a short across the terminals (they are reasonably protected - but you can get covers or an empty connector to make sure) and secure the cable to something in case it gets pulled (cable tie to seat base?) as you don't want any pull to be on the connectors to the battery/fuse board.

If you take out VIP membership then this is the diagram for the battery mounted fuse box and this is the one for earth point locations.

Generally lead acid batteries shouldn't be discharged below around 50% - which means around 12v - so I'd leave the battery protection on "H" most of the time, use "M" if you have to push it but be aware that with a cut out of 10.1v that's extremely low. I wouldn't use "L" at all.

Thanks. Would I just use the same tail and disconnect the fridge if I wanted to charge the battery with solar?

 

[roadtripper]

Thanks. Would I just use the same tail and disconnect the fridge if I wanted to charge the battery with solar?

Yes - though I suspect if you head down that route and start using more electrical items you'll want to be putting in more of a distribution board. But an SB50 opens up other useful options in the interim as it's a solid high current connector - hence why lots of folks use them.