Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?

Dellmassive said:
Dont know how i missed this news . . . . . . . . but,

LifOS release a 105ah Lithium . . . . finally !! ( @ROMANY TAMPIN - possible upgrade?)

still no LTD, but hey its 105Ah . . . now inline with most of the other guys.

and they have changed the sales pitch to clearly state the Ah capacity as it is . . . and then mention the equivalent SLA capacity - well done guys. =]

cap -105ah
life - 5000 cycles @ 50%dod
dim - 328 x 177 x 233mm
max discharge - 100/120/150A (-20-60degC)
charge - 20-50A @ (14.4 - 14.6v) (0-50degC)
LTD - NO (dont charge below 0degC)
LBD - NO (recommended, add ur own @ 11.2v)



Lifos Advanced Lithium Power

View attachment 59011


Lifos 105Ah/12v Smart Lithium (LiFePO4) Battery (LB0105)
As the flagship in the Lifos range, the Lifos 105 is the only choice where maximum power, minimal weight and longest cycle life are critical. Whether used to power electric marine motors or in large RVs, off grid properties, for on location audio visual equipment power, powering emergency “blue light” equipment or in commercial applications such as road signage, the Lifos 105 provides quick charging reliable power in all circumstances.

The Lifos 105 provides an amazing 2750 charge / discharge cycles with a 95% depth of discharge giving a usable battery capacity of 99.75Ah. To replace this a 200Ah lead acid battery would be needed but instead of weighing in at nearly 60kgs, the Lifos 105 is a featherweight 11.9kgs.
Lifos 105 can be connected with four batteries in series or parallel if a power bank is needed and each battery's internal BMS ensures all the lithium cells are perfectly balanced to give outstanding and reliable performance.

Fitted with a Bluetooth app, you can keep abreast of the vital information at all times when connected to an Android or Apple smart device. Information such as current, voltage, power (w) and state of charge can be interrogated at any time and the smart operating system even send you a warning well before the battery gets to a low state of discharge giving plenty of time to get it recharged.

Lifos 105 comes with a five year warranty.


datasheet - https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/231bdcf7/files/uploaded/LiFOS 105 Data Sheet.PDF


View attachment 59010
Click to expand...


Looks a good one
Not sure they put a low temp charge cut off on it ??
 
Some great work on here @Dellmassive :thumbsup: Having had a good read through, I would just like to add a couple of points which could be helpful for others:

Firstly the Victron MPPTs do not necessarily need a BMV712 to enable the LTD function. You can use the cheaper option of the 'Victron Smart Battery Sense' device. This also networks to the Victron MPPT via the VE.Smart networking for real-time voltage and temperature measurement.

Secondly, if you have a Victron MPPT controller, you could use the LOAD output control for LBD. The 15A controllers for example have a max load output of also 15A which would be adequate for many camper set ups. The LBD voltage is programmable via the app in the Load Output settings.
 
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Renogy Lithium-Iron Phosphate Battery 12 Volt 100Ah

upload_2020-2-4_11-55-42.pngupload_2020-2-4_11-56-3.pngupload_2020-2-4_11-56-21.png

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Rapt0rUK said:
Thanks for the replies guys, some really valid points to give me more to think about.

I had a really good chat with the guys at Rayne Automotive today, they build pre-wired kits with all the various components ready to go. We got into a long conversations about Lithium... their net position, if money was no object then Lithium is of course the future and the way to go...but the investment puts most off.

They fully scoped a complete solution for me 2 X 95AH AGM batteries, CTEK DC-DC, 1000w modified sinewave inverter, Victron 175w solar panel with mounting kit, 6 LED lights, couple of reading lights, extra USB sockets, EHU kit, BMV 712 monitor, all cables, RCD board, 230v sockets, switches etc... Basically full end of end system.. £1400...

It's a pretty impressive proposition and really left me wondering which way to go...

I'm lead to believe LPG hob and a diesel heater is way more cost efficient than trying to generate heat with electric. So that means our power usage is likely to only really be lights, fridge and inverter for the times we're not on EHU to charge camera batteries, laptops, iPad etc...

Their view with that sort of usage, 2 X 95AH AGM's with DC-DC and solar for support would cover us no problem... Would you disagree?

The main thing we want to avoid is having to run the engine on a site to keep our fridge and lights going... I cant imagine we'll be days on end off-grid and staying put in one location but would be nice to know we'd get away with 2-3 days if we wanted to.

I'm not adverse to spending the cash on a Lithium setup if it's going to deliver us that much more benefit but starting to wonder whether it might actually be overkill for our needs at probably way more than £1400 (haven't actually coated all those components yet)...

Would you say a fair summary?
Click to expand...


I think the Ctek is a bit under powered for the two batteries suggested. I recommend at least 30 amps or preferably 40 amps for efficient charging.
 
@Dellmassive - do you still run the valence batteries? Diim looking into them and trying to understand if i need the external bms?

I will have a b2b and solar for charging running lights, fridge, usb chargers etc, nothing mega!
 
mrdanielmh said:
@Dellmassive - do you still run the valence batteries? Diim looking into them and trying to understand if i need the external bms?

I will have a b2b and solar for charging running lights, fridge, usb chargers etc, nothing mega!
Click to expand...
Yes still running them.

No external BMS required, they have there own internal one.

Just ensure your charge source has a lithium profile.

And that you have a low voltage disconect or get a decent power monitor to meter it out... (same applies to all the lifepo4 at that price point)

The internal BMS will cut out at say 10v ish but all makers say use an external one set around 11-12v this will make the battery last way longer and give you many more charge cycles, protecting your investment...... or use a power meter to disconect...


The thing is lifepo4 batteries are different than AGMs etc... they hold there voltage for 95% of the capacity then fall off the cliff..... running them that low continuously drastically reduces life cycle capacity.
 
Last edited:
Dellmassive said:
Part1 - LBD

LBD (Low Battery disconnect) and Lifepo4 capacity testing . . . .

let me start by saying I've been playing with Lithium batteries for years, from RC LiPo`s to laptop/Vape stick 18650`s and also large scale 12v installs for ICE and large inverters. . . . BUT these large capacity Lifepo4`s are freeking awesome !!!. . . (I love this one so much, I've just sold a kidney and bought a second one - Valence U27-12XP 12.8V @ 138ah)

lets start with the LBD, a simple purchase of, in this case the 100A (max throughput) Victron smart battery disconnect : Smart BatteryProtect - Victron Energy


View attachment 51659

Its Bluetooth so you can adjust the setting and monitor the battery via the app. in this case i set the shut-off point at 11.25V and reconnect point at 12.5V (you can also use the app to manual disconnect the power (like a virtual switch))

you can see it here below, simply connected inline on the positive cable (plus it has its own ground wire)

View attachment 51663

Normal operation we have this load output active :

View attachment 51660

then when the battery drops below the alert point we get an alarm like this:


View attachment 51661


then 30 seconds later the unit disconnects the power:


View attachment 51662


Job done, this has now shut off all loads from the battery at 11.1V and saving the battery from deeply discharging . . . . the battery voltage recovered slightly as we were pulling a 50A load but it was still below the reconnect voltage / . . . . . . all that was left now was to recharge the battery.

.

I
Click to expand...
Quick question on the Victron Smart Disconnect @Dellmassive please?
My TN100 feeds two seperate fused cables to my services. One goes seperately to each side of my 12 way fuse box so I effectively have essential and non essential services.
If I fit the the Victron Low Voltage Disconnect I think I would be able to have a full Leisure battery disconnect in addition to the obvious LV protection?
Is it worth buying the Bluetooth version or does the app pretty much just tell you the voltage? Doesnt work as a current meter or anything else that I can see?
Its also quite big and findign space for it might not be easy.
My Low Temperature protection is handled by the Renogy DC-DC and a simple switch on the Solar input.
 
mrdanielmh said:
Thanks @Dellmassive can you jist link multiple together uding pos and neg cable to double capacity? Do you have any recommendations for lvd?
Click to expand...

Yes, in parallel, but make sure the batteries are fully charged (when joining them to stop current inrush) and same make/model. (check the manufactures spec sheet for full details)

Fuse the link cable if the batteries are not next to each other.

The Victron Smart Battery Protect is a great device for LBD/LVD - Victron Energy Smart BatteryProtect 12/24V 65A - BPR065022000: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike
ie:
  • Protects the battery against excessive discharge and can be used as a system on/off switch, 12/24V auto ranging, Bluetooth: programming made easy, A special setting for Li-ion batteries, Ultra-low current consumption, Over voltage protection, Ignition proof, Delayed alarm output, Delayed load disconnect and delayed reconnect
  • Technical Specification: RH+, 65AH, 12/24V
  • 5 Year Warranty

1586965219304.png



===================


100A version - Victron Battery Protect 12/24V 100 Amp disconnects the battery before it is completely discharged: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools



1586965393156.png
 
Farnorthsurfer said:
Quick question on the Victron Smart Disconnect @Dellmassive please?
My TN100 feeds two seperate fused cables to my services. One goes seperately to each side of my 12 way fuse box so I effectively have essential and non essential services.
If I fit the the Victron Low Voltage Disconnect I think I would be able to have a full Leisure battery disconnect in addition to the obvious LV protection?
Is it worth buying the Bluetooth version or does the app pretty much just tell you the voltage? Doesnt work as a current meter or anything else that I can see?
Its also quite big and findign space for it might not be easy.
My Low Temperature protection is handled by the Renogy DC-DC and a simple switch on the Solar input.
Click to expand...

Yes the Victron Battery Protect can work as a MASTER ON/OFF switch (via the bluetooth app) as well as LVD/LBD.

100% get the bluetooth version.

Victron Battery Protect 12/24V 100A - Victron Battery Protect 12/24V 100 Amp disconnects the battery before it is completely discharged: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools
Victron Battery Protect 12/24V 65A - Victron Energy Smart BatteryProtect 12/24V 65A - BPR065022000: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike

It gives you the battery voltage, but not other metrics so its not a power meter or anything so a BM2 is still better for voltage logging.


Bm2 Battery Monitor: - QUICKLYNKS Battery Monitor BM2 Bluetooth 4.0 Device Car 12V Battery Tester Diagnostic Tool for Android iOS iPhone Digital Analyzer Battery Measurement Units: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & ToolsQUICKLYNKS Battery Monitor BM2 Bluetooth 4.0 Device Car 12V Battery Tester Diagnostic Tool for Android iOS iPhone Digital Analyzer Battery Measurement Units: Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools



The BMV712 is an awesome power meter and very much recommended for Lifepo4 setups.

Victron Energy BMV-712 Smart Battery Monitor - Victron Energy BAM030712000 BMV-712 Smart Retail Battery Monitor: Amazon.co.uk: Car & Motorbike


also have a look at the NEW - Victron Energy SmartShunt Battery Monitor - Victron Energy SmartShunt Battery Monitor 500A Bluetooth Inside - SHU050150050: Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science


***************************


you can play with the victron conect APP and run free demo hardware items . . . Software - Victron Energy

.
 
new victron app V5.20

www.victronenergy.com

VictronConnect v5.20 - Connect & Configure Remotely - Victron Energy

Good day, Two posts in one day, that could be a first! With good reason: in addition to the Venus OS v2.53 release there is an updated VictronConnect as well. And not a small change this time as today we’re adding Remote connectivity to VictronConnect. It enables Victron devices – such as Solar...
www.victronenergy.com www.victronenergy.com

.
 
This is amazing, thank you @Dellmassive ! - One last question, I currently have an 3210a tracer from EPEVER for my MPPT controller, and trying to source a 40a renogy dc2dc b2b (any tips where to get these?) - I wondered how I could incorporate the Victron BMV-712 for Low temp cut off into those inputs?
 
mrdanielmh said:
This is amazing, thank you @Dellmassive ! - One last question, I currently have an 3210a tracer from EPEVER for my MPPT controller, and trying to source a 40a renogy dc2dc b2b (any tips where to get these?) - I wondered how I could incorporate the Victron BMV-712 for Low temp cut off into those inputs?
Click to expand...


you could try swapping out your EPEVER MPPT, for one of theses.

DCC50S 12V 50A DC-DC ON-BOARD BATTERY CHARGER WITH MPPT

1586974725169.png

Renogy 50A DC-DC On-board Battery Charger with MPPT - Renogy 50A DC-DC On-board Battery Charger with MPPT: Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science

uk.renogy.com

Renogy 12V 50A DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger with MPPT

Renogy DCC50S DC to DC charger with solar input is used for charging a solar battery. The solar power battery charger charges the leisure battery w/ solar power.
uk.renogy.com uk.renogy.com

its a 50A (25/25) DC-DC / B2B charger,

with Lithium profile,

with Low Temp Disconect

then just add a Victron Energy SmartShunt Battery Monitor - Victron Energy SmartShunt Battery Monitor 500A Bluetooth Inside - SHU050150050: Amazon.co.uk: Business, Industry & Science for monitoring.


it seems Renogy are low on stock for the 24/40A dc-dc ATM..



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more info here:

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Dc-dc Charger (for Leisure Battery) -- How I Done It --
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Diagrams, Schematics & Wires -- How I Done It --
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Battery Monitoring -- How I Done It --
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and here:

**************************************************
Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread
**************************************************
Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --
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