T6.1 Reduce oil level and Oil dilution

[Jeff G]

@totitxu, says: (Translated for the benefit of readership on the forum )

"I'm glad it helps you, I'm very happy with it, as you said, it warns you at the beginning and end of the regeneration and I have to say that the oil level remains at the same level as when they changed the oil. And it hasn't given me any problem of any kind."

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Same results here. I fitted the device shortly after an oil and filter change service, with the same results ....no change in oil levels after approx 650 miles mixed journeys.

Best regards,
Jeff

 

[Graham Jones]

@totitxu, says: (Translated for the benefit of readership on the forum )

"I'm glad it helps you, I'm very happy with it, as you said, it warns you at the beginning and end of the regeneration and I have to say that the oil level remains at the same level as when they changed the oil. And it hasn't given me any problem of any kind."

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Same results here. I fitted the device shortly after an oil and filter change service, with the same results ....no change in oil levels after approx 650 miles mixed journeys.

Best regards,
Jeff

Thanks Jeff. Did you have any trouble fitting it into the socket. I have a T6.1 and I am not sure whether the obd socket is situated in the same under dash molding? Cheers.

 

[Jeff G]

Thanks Jeff. Did you have any trouble fitting it into the socket. I have a T6.1 and I am not sure whether the obd socket is situated in the same under dash molding? Cheers.

@Graham Jones, No issues in my case. The LED which plugs into the OBD insert has a decent length lead, about 600mm. Even if your OBD is in a slightly different location it won't be an issue. You can position the LED to suit your preference. I imagine your OBD port will be in the same place as my own. Once plugged in you cannot see it at all so would not know it is there unless you looked for it. I consider it to be a 'Plug and Play device', in that, if necessary, it can be removed (unplugged) for service diagnostics, then replaced to continue its purpose.

 

[archersam]

@Graham Jones, No issues in my case. The LED which plugs into the OBD insert has a decent length lead, about 600mm. Even if your OBD is in a slightly different location it won't be an issue. You can position the LED to suit your preference. I imagine your OBD port will be in the same place as my own. Once plugged in you cannot see it at all so would not know it is there unless you looked for it. I consider it to be a 'Plug and Play device', in that, if necessary, it can be removed (unplugged) for service diagnostics, then replaced to continue its purpose.

Am liking the look of this, however quick question = if it comes on when say you arrive home is it ok to leave running at 1000 revs and get on with unloading shopping (secure site behind gates so very little risk as such) or do you need to drive it etc etc?

Couple of times I have noticed the 1000 revs as I stop my reverse into the parking area and so often notice but a warning be nicer.

 

[Jeff G]

Am liking the look of this, however quick question = if it comes on when say you arrive home is it ok to leave running at 1000 revs and get on with unloading shopping (secure site behind gates so very little risk as such) or do you need to drive it etc etc?

Couple of times I have noticed the 1000 revs as I stop my reverse into the parking area and so often notice but a warning be nicer.

I can’t give a definitive answer …. I wondered the same and decided to drive rather than let the van just idle, purely because the DPF regeneration would be completed as perhaps intended…. while being driven and therefore perhaps a hotter DPF state to burn off the soot? It would be interesting to know how long the regeneration takes to complete both driving, and at a standstill?

Historically, I never really noticed the increased revs before …. And never really remembered to check when my journey ended . For me it now just works and alongside regular oil level checks, satisfies my need to do what I can to hopefully, avoid further problems.

 

[DXX]

It would be interesting to know how long the regeneration takes to complete both driving, and at a standstill?

Diesel engine exhaust gas temperature varies a lot with the change of load. I doubt that idling is going to be beneficial, quite possibly more detrimental as there is insufficient gas flow and temperature to do an effective job.
For all the needless gadgets that VW and other manufacturers put on vehicles the one set of measurements that would really help with engine diagnostics is individual cylinder exhaust gas temperatures. This is fundamental in industrial ICE plant.

 

[mmi]

It would be interesting to know how long the regeneration takes to complete both driving, and at a standstill?

Fascinating question.... actually at standstill T6 engine gives up regeneration in about 5 minutes - continuing it on the next driving cycle.

Below a plot of an approx.10 minute standstill while regeneration still going on when stopped.

GREY = vehicle speed​

GREEN = EGR position which being around zero here is to just indicate regen on/off on the plot.​

ORANGE = DPF soot (calculated) which for this engine varies from 30 grams (full) down to 9 grams when regeneration is finished.​

Markers on orange curve indicate: 1st - vehicle at standstill, 2nd - engine gives up active DPF regeneration - because of cooler exhaust gases.



Statistics

• During active regeneration soot burnt at standstill -2.69 grams (from 14.31 to 11.62 grams at markers) - to finish off the regen should have reached 9 grams. Outside temperature was +20 °C.
• DPF active regeneration duration at standstill stayed on 600 seconds (from 1065 to 1365 seconds - the markers).
• During that 0.21 litres of fuel was used (seen in other data, not plotted here). For comparison, without DPF regeneration less than 0.07 litres would have been consumed (0.8 litres/hour).
• The engine gives up active DPF regeneration at 1365 seconds thus returning EGR back to normal operation as well releasing the high idling back to normal 830 RPM.
• Thus "soot burn rate" at standstill was 0.54 grams/minute (in average over the 5 minutes) , however rate is deteriorating quite quickly being below 0.40 grams/minute during last 100 seconds before engine giving up the regen.
• For comparison, while vehicle moving (above 50 km/h) the burn rate is well above 1.5 grams/minute at the hottest phase.

For myself I have concluded that it doesn't make sense to try to finish the DPF regeneration at standstill - unless it's just about to finish off the regen. I guess that one of flipsides of letting engine to do regeneration at standstill is getting oil diluted with fuel.

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[Jeff G]

@mmi, Grateful thanks for posting all this information. A lot of the attached detail and measures taken to ascertain the results is way above my pay grade, to be perfectly honest . However, I shall spend some time reading through all the info and attachments with interest.

What I do readily take from your extensive reply is your comment:

"For myself I have concluded that it doesn't make sense to try to finish the DPF regeneration at standstill - unless it's just about to finish off the regen. I guess that one of flipsides of letting engine to do regeneration at standstill is getting oil diluted with fuel."

I imagine that for the majority the steps that can be taken to avoid oil dilution and possible repercussions of that, are of great value.

Thanks again, you have added a lot of useful references within this post which I feel sure will be of use as a reference, to many.

Jeff

 

[mmi]

@Jeff G Thanks for asking - I knew that I had a suitable data but never finalised it into, hopefully, a bit more understandable form.

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engine gives up active DPF regeneration - because of cooler exhaust gases.

Well, I think it would be more accurate to state - because of significantly smaller exhaust mass flow. The exhaust temperature at DPF input (red) still remains at adequate regeneration level just not enough flow.

Below plotted the full journey wherefrom the 10 minute snippet was taken (see the markers on orange curve). The DPF regeneration finished at the end of the journey - how convenient

Also added (calculated) soot burn rate along the journey (milligrams/minute).

 

[Graham Jones]

Thanks Jeff. Did you have any trouble fitting it into the socket. I have a T6.1 and I am not sure whether the obd socket is situated in the same under dash molding? Cheers.

Received and fitted the DPF Controller today. Very happy with how easy it is. As you said just plug and play...works perfectly.
Thanks for your help. Cheers.

 

[EmH]

Hiya, complete newbie here, so apologies if I’ve posted this in the wrong place. I’ve just picked up a secondhand (2020) T6.1 Transporter from the VW dealership. About 60 miles in to having it (about 5 miles of city driving and 55miles of 60mph) the warning message came on for ‘oil level too high - warning’. I rang the VW dealership that I got it from and they said to me over the phone that the oil level is probably just a bit high and should burn off after a few hundred miles. I’ve now driven it about 180 miles and the warning light goes off after the bonet being opened and closed, but comes on again about 50-60 miles later. When checking the oil level when the engine’s cold it’s at the top of the hatched area on the dipstick. I’m a bit worried that I might damage it by driving it around with the warning light on. Have seen elsewhere that there might be a software update to fix this, but having only picked it up a few days ago I would have ashamed VW would make sure it’s fully updated before sale. Any suggestions?

 

[BognorMotors]

It’s a common problem. There is a software update for and maybe the oil level needs to be reduced a bit. Take it back to the dealer.

 

[DXX]

Hiya, complete newbie here, so apologies if I’ve posted this in the wrong place. I’ve just picked up a secondhand (2020) T6.1 Transporter from the VW dealership. About 60 miles in to having it (about 5 miles of city driving and 55miles of 60mph) the warning message came on for ‘oil level too high - warning’. I rang the VW dealership that I got it from and they said to me over the phone that the oil level is probably just a bit high and should burn off after a few hundred miles. I’ve now driven it about 180 miles and the warning light goes off after the bonet being opened and closed, but comes on again about 50-60 miles later. When checking the oil level when the engine’s cold it’s at the top of the hatched area on the dipstick. I’m a bit worried that I might damage it by driving it around with the warning light on. Have seen elsewhere that there might be a software update to fix this, but having only picked it up a few days ago I would have ashamed VW would make sure it’s fully updated before sale. Any suggestions?

The level being at the top of the hatch isn’t a problem and the indication on the dash’ is a warning.
Why it’s risen (if it has) could be a problem if nobody has added oil, it could be down to fuel dilution. I suggest you monitor the cold level and see if it continues to rise.
Theres a Search function.
As you can see this topic is a common issue, have a search and a read.

 

[EmH]

The level being at the top of the hatch isn’t a problem and the indication on the dash’ is a warning.
Why it’s risen (if it has) could be a problem if nobody has added oil, it could be down to fuel dilution. I suggest you monitor the cold level and see if it continues to rise.
Theres a Search function.
As you can see this topic is a common issue, have a search and a read.

View attachment 248677

Thank you !

 

[perc1]

High tick over is obvs sign.
Dash light will only come on when DPF is overfill and not been able to regen.
No software will change how often it regens so this is either a misunderstanding or dealer bullxxxx

Get a Carista (or similar) and monitor soot yourself and trigger a regen when it suits you.

How do you trigger a regen?

High tick over is obvs sign.
Dash light will only come on when DPF is overfill and not been able to regen.
No software will change how often it regens so this is either a misunderstanding or dealer bullxxxx

Get a Carista (or similar) and monitor soot yourself and trigger a regen when it suits you.

 

[Harrison73]

Hi all, I have recently purchased a t6.1 21 plate. Driving back from the dealership I got the (now understood to be very common) message of ‘engine oil level too high - go to workshop’.

I understand from all the forums + videos that the likelihood is the oil has been topped up too high. The dipstick shows it about 3/4 to the top of the hatch section when cold. Then to the top of the second bump or more after running at temperature.

My questions I seek advice/answer for are:

-why exactly does this warning only show after circa 60 miles? Is this 60 miles of constant driving or 60 miles in general?
-is it still at all possible the cause could be diesel contamination…if so how much diesel could leak per regen
-how many regens not being finished could result in potentially detrimental conditions for the engine
-in 2024 is there still no way for regens to be controlled. If so, how?
-is it normal for the oil to expand so much?
-how often do re-gens happen and is the van worth the management seemingly necessary
-if I was to get an oil swap and put it at the correct level, will this then remedy the issue or do I need to drive it a certain distance for it to be recognised as I have seen suggested?

Huge thanks in advance to anyone who might have experience and insight. I don’t want to give the van back if the issue isn’t all as bad as it seems.

 

[EmH]

Hi all, I have recently purchased a t6.1 21 plate. Driving back from the dealership I got the (now understood to be very common) message of ‘engine oil level too high - go to workshop’.

I understand from all the forums + videos that the likelihood is the oil has been topped up too high. The dipstick shows it about 3/4 to the top of the hatch section when cold. Then to the top of the second bump or more after running at temperature.

My questions I seek advice/answer for are:

-why exactly does this warning only show after circa 60 miles? Is this 60 miles of constant driving or 60 miles in general?
-is it still at all possible the cause could be diesel contamination…if so how much diesel could leak per regen
-how many regens not being finished could result in potentially detrimental conditions for the engine
-in 2024 is there still no way for regens to be controlled. If so, how?
-is it normal for the oil to expand so much?
-how often do re-gens happen and is the van worth the management seemingly necessary
-if I was to get an oil swap and put it at the correct level, will this then remedy the issue or do I need to drive it a certain distance for it to be recognised as I have seen suggested?

Huge thanks in advance to anyone who might have experience and insight. I don’t want to give the van back if the issue isn’t all as bad as it seems.

Congrats on the new van! I don’t know all the answers to your questions but will help where I can…
- my understanding is that the 60 mile thing is just a reset of the system everytime you open and close the bonet. It makes the van think you’ve ‘fixed’ the problem. Then after 60 miles of driving it realises the level is still high and turns the warning light on again. So if that’s happening that might explain it.
- My oil level was approx 3/4 along hatched at cold as well. As mine was still under warranty and purchased from VW, so it came with VW assist. I rang them, they came out and drained about 1L off the oil (free of charge), it was then right at the bottom of the hatched area when cold. This was approx beginning of August and the light has never come on again since.
- it can be diesel contamination, but the dipstick would smell very ‘diesel-y’ as it would have to be a fair amount to increase oil levels by enough to trigger the light to come on (is what VW assist told me).
- there is a software update for T6.1’s that targeted this aparently, so also worth getting them to check that your van has had it if someone does come out.
- unsure on number of regens missed that would trigger this. But likely to just be oil level too high. If the revs are over 1000 when idling it’s a typical sign it’s in regen and you just need to drive it around for a bit on high revs to finish it.

It sounds super similar to mine and it’s all been fixed by VW assist draining some of the oil and was a really easy and simple process. So fingers crossed that’s the same for you, but understand it causes some panic when it’s a new vehicle! See if they can syphon some off and then limit the number of short journeys you’re doing / take it for a blast on a dual carriageway every now and then and you should be good. Fingers crossed for you!

Hope that helps!

 

[Drive Wayne]

I had the same problem 18 months ago, I keep my oil at half way up the cross hatching, when I have a service I remove between 400 and 500 ml of oil through the dipstick tube to reduce it down to halfway. Initially I was worried about oil dilution so I sent a sample to Miller's for oil analysis, no worries from the results.
I'm lucky my van doesn't use oil, I'm sure it's just oil expansion, but send a sample off to be sure!

 

[Harrison73]

Thanks for the prompt articulated responses, both have further eased my mind. I’m starting to get over the fact there definitely seems to be a slight design flaw regarding the regens and the oil sensor + steady management of regens is required. At first I read all the forums and instantly thought get my money back i want nothing to do with this for the money spent - of course fearing the worst of diesel dilution and then engines failing.

I’m going to get diagnostics done along with an oil change from vw to the correct level at the dealers cost. I will mention the software update also. All being well I can put this blip to the back of my mind.

My only other slight irk I forgot to ask: when I got back from the first drive home and the engine light had appeared. There was particularly strong smell of diesel at the rear of the van - not just a whiff. Is this normal?

Thanks again

 

[EmH]

Thanks for the prompt articulated responses, both have further eased my mind. I’m starting to get over the fact there definitely seems to be a slight design flaw regarding the regens and the oil sensor + steady management of regens is required. At first I read all the forums and instantly thought get my money back i want nothing to do with this for the money spent - of course fearing the worst of diesel dilution and then engines failing.

I’m going to get diagnostics done along with an oil change from vw to the correct level at the dealers cost. I will mention the software update also. All being well I can put this blip to the back of my mind.

My only other slight irk I forgot to ask: when I got back from the first drive home and the engine light had appeared. There was particularly strong smell of diesel at the rear of the van - not just a whiff. Is this normal?

Thanks again

No worries! Unsure, haven’t had that from the rear of the van. I had it once from near the bonet which is when I think I turned the engine off mid-regen. Could be that? Might all just be teething issues if it’s been on the forecourt / not driven for a while, but definitely flag it with VW and they should be able to check that out too. Should still be under warranty if it’s a ‘21 plate so fingers crossed!