Valence U27-12XP Lifepo4 Lithium Battery -- How We Done It --
- Thread starter Dellmassive
- Start date
Yes its a Viable option - you need to make sure your charge sources are Lifepo4 compatible, and look out for LTD and LVD.
There is always a new kid on the block, that bigger and better.
There are other makes that have a fully functional BMS that deal with everything.
The Renogy and Poweroad are currently popular.
other makes are available and covered over here:
Lithium LifePo4 12v Batteries - Time For An Upgrade?
Lithium Batteries are the future, (keep checking back for the latest news/edits) ************************************************** Dellmassive`s -- "how I Done It" -- Thread ************************************************** Kit List And Stuff -- How I Done It & What I Use --...
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RichardTeeSix
TeeSix Boat
I don't have a T6, but I do have 4 of the Valence u27 12xp Ver.1, (black), in my boat powering the leisure side of things. This is the only forum and thread that seems to have some in depth knowledge of these batteries, so I hope you dont mind an intruder 
One of the batteries has a cell which gets to 600mV out of balance when the charge gets close to 14.6V, i.e. close to full, at the top of the knee, (as I've heard it called).
I use a generator to charge the batteries, (via a Sterling Pro Charge Ultra 60A charger).
My question is how to get this cell back into balance? From what i've read here, I need them to be pretty much full, be charging at a voltage high enough to activate the cell balancing, (13.9V?), and I need to have the PC monitoring active.
Does this mean I have to be monitoring the actual battery in question or, because they are all linked, could I switch between them?
As a power saving thing, my laptop screen goes blank, and sometimes I have to restart it. Would I have to stop the power saving, and make sure the laptop doesnt shut down, and the screen stays on.
Any ideas how long it might take to balance 600mV?
As a matter of interest, I have been using these since Nov 2019, and love them. They seem to have a capacity around 520Ah, (or 130Ah each), so pretty much as new. I use a Victron Battery Protect to protect against low voltage.
One of the batteries has a cell which gets to 600mV out of balance when the charge gets close to 14.6V, i.e. close to full, at the top of the knee, (as I've heard it called).
I use a generator to charge the batteries, (via a Sterling Pro Charge Ultra 60A charger).
My question is how to get this cell back into balance? From what i've read here, I need them to be pretty much full, be charging at a voltage high enough to activate the cell balancing, (13.9V?), and I need to have the PC monitoring active.
Does this mean I have to be monitoring the actual battery in question or, because they are all linked, could I switch between them?
As a power saving thing, my laptop screen goes blank, and sometimes I have to restart it. Would I have to stop the power saving, and make sure the laptop doesnt shut down, and the screen stays on.
Any ideas how long it might take to balance 600mV?
As a matter of interest, I have been using these since Nov 2019, and love them. They seem to have a capacity around 520Ah, (or 130Ah each), so pretty much as new. I use a Victron Battery Protect to protect against low voltage.
@RichardTeeSix - yes you need to have all the batteries data lines connected together (round 4pin connection on black v1 batterys) if they are in the same bank.
yes - you need to have the laptop connected and awake to activated the battery BMS and allow for the top balancing.
set the laptop power settings in control panel to stay on always so it doesn't go to sleep.
+++
you can also bottom balance by running the bank down low , , , , then fully recharge.
its advised to do a laptop top balance every month or so if the battery's are used daily.
+++
see here for more info:
diysolarforum.com
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yes - you need to have the laptop connected and awake to activated the battery BMS and allow for the top balancing.
set the laptop power settings in control panel to stay on always so it doesn't go to sleep.
+++
you can also bottom balance by running the bank down low , , , , then fully recharge.
its advised to do a laptop top balance every month or so if the battery's are used daily.
+++
see here for more info:
Valence XP Super Thread
#1: I'll try and keep this organized. We're limited to 10,000 characters so this will be a multi part post. If you have an XP battery or a bunch of them this will be a good thread for information on how to treat them properly. We'll discuss what the Valence Brand U-BMS actually does and how to...
diysolarforum.com
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I thought I’d post a few photos of my Valence canoe power pack. It’s been well tested now and I’m very happy with the 10 year old battery performance. Thanks to @Dellmassive
It’s shoe horned into an IP67 enclosure, I don’t think I could have found one with a tighter fit.
All quick mating IP67 connections.
It’s got the standard Victron BMV 712 bluetooth monitor with smart shunt, I monitor the battery on the Victron app while on the water, no battery protect.
I’ve fitted an audible water detector with the sensor at the bottom of the box, PP9 powered.
As it’s a sealed unit I was concerned about a possible pressure build up in case of water ingress causing gassing, I considered a NRV vent but that’s just another route in for water if I have a capsize. I opted for a very sensitive pressure / vacuum gauge from a CPAP ventilator machine, it’s amazing what you can find online.
At full speed I’m pulling approx 37-39A for hours on end, the battery temperature reaches approx 36 degrees.
Obviously if water gets into the battery one of us is leaving the canoe in a hurry, the battery securing strap is on quick release but I also have the option to jump.
Having a motor allows for lazy days, going against wind, tide and current and going further. Obviously there’s always a risk of a power failure and the need to paddle so if I’m in open water there’s a degree of caution involved.
I’ve no plans to use it in the van so far as my leisure system is adequate but I’m considering using it with an inverter for the house as we have regular power cuts.
It will probably keep my oil fired boiler going for a considerable time.
It’s shoe horned into an IP67 enclosure, I don’t think I could have found one with a tighter fit.
All quick mating IP67 connections.
It’s got the standard Victron BMV 712 bluetooth monitor with smart shunt, I monitor the battery on the Victron app while on the water, no battery protect.
I’ve fitted an audible water detector with the sensor at the bottom of the box, PP9 powered.
As it’s a sealed unit I was concerned about a possible pressure build up in case of water ingress causing gassing, I considered a NRV vent but that’s just another route in for water if I have a capsize. I opted for a very sensitive pressure / vacuum gauge from a CPAP ventilator machine, it’s amazing what you can find online.
At full speed I’m pulling approx 37-39A for hours on end, the battery temperature reaches approx 36 degrees.
Obviously if water gets into the battery one of us is leaving the canoe in a hurry, the battery securing strap is on quick release but I also have the option to jump.
Having a motor allows for lazy days, going against wind, tide and current and going further. Obviously there’s always a risk of a power failure and the need to paddle so if I’m in open water there’s a degree of caution involved.
I’ve no plans to use it in the van so far as my leisure system is adequate but I’m considering using it with an inverter for the house as we have regular power cuts.
It will probably keep my oil fired boiler going for a considerable time.
6Legger
Member
I have the Victron Battery Protect ready to go in the van.
It's a shame the Victron Blue Smart IP22 chargers do not support VE.Smart like the MPPT chargers do. You can then set the charge cut off temperature. Apparently the processor in Blue Smart IP22 chargers is not man enough to keep up with the communications. Rather an oversight by Victron I think.
I can manually monitor temperatures via the Victron app with the Smart Battery Sense I am already using and networking to the MPPT solar charger. Solar is the highest risk of unattended charging at low temperatures anyway and I can set that to cut off.
The Victron chargers as mentioned in this thread do now support the bluetooth VE Smart network. This is one of the core reasons I bought it as I also have a Victron SmartBatterySense which gives voltage and temperature of the battery. I was then able to join it into the charge network.
The sensor is attached to the battery and gives continuous readings. When the box was built, the sensor and charging ports were kept off the power isolator, despite my requests to have it added. But the build was of decent quality and otherwise I'm happy with it. I provided a lot of the tech and the battery and box, and the guy built it for me. I have some knowledge but its best sometimes to get someone in who has more knowledge than I do for such projects. In time I'm sure my confidence levels will increase
got some pics of you setup for us all to see?The Victron chargers as mentioned in this thread do now support the bluetooth VE Smart network. This is one of the core reasons I bought it as I also have a Victron SmartBatterySense which gives voltage and temperature of the battery. I was then able to join it into the charge network.
The sensor is attached to the battery and gives continuous readings. When the box was built, the sensor and charging ports were kept off the power isolator, despite my requests to have it added. But the build was of decent quality and otherwise I'm happy with it. I provided a lot of the tech and the battery and box, and the guy built it for me. I have some knowledge but its best sometimes to get someone in who has more knowledge than I do for such projects. In time I'm sure my confidence levels will increase
++++++
i think my second Victron IP22 30A charger was one of the first with revised HW - that added VE Smart.
+++
6Legger
Member
Would you like me to create a fresh thread for that, and how large do you want the images?
NM. I went with 800x600 mostly and the last is 1024x.
Lithium Valence Magnusson Battery Box
So. Some months ago whilst visiting a shared workshop of a friend he offered me a 12v Lithium battery to use. I was actually collecting 2 for a friend here in Coventry anyway, and he was taking away 6 to go into his 24v Volvo C303 camper. I ummed and ahhed, but decided to go with the flow and...
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6Legger
Member
I have some problems. I've got the Valence U27-12XP 138ah/1.7kwh battery, and I've got a Victron IP22 charger attached.
Previously it has charged the battery OK, I don't know what has changed but when I power the charger on now in Li ion mode it goes up to showing 16v but 0.0 A. The battery voltage read by the bluetooth Victron monitor still shows the voltage the same.
Any ideas please?
If its not pushing any amps when its showing its giving 16v then does that mean its not charging as the V/A go together?
Previously it has charged the battery OK, I don't know what has changed but when I power the charger on now in Li ion mode it goes up to showing 16v but 0.0 A. The battery voltage read by the bluetooth Victron monitor still shows the voltage the same.
Any ideas please?
If its not pushing any amps when its showing its giving 16v then does that mean its not charging as the V/A go together?
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6Legger
Member
I went over to Victron as it seemed like a them problem and stuff.
community.victronenergy.com
Searching for 16v I came across this thread that suggested that the SmartSense battery monitor had a temperature compensation issue and hence going up to that voltage. I removed the SBS from the VE network and it dropped back down to showing 14.6v and 0A on Absorbtion. I managed to coax it into Bulk Charge mode, but its now at 14.52v and 0 A, but the SBS is showing 13.39v.
community.victronenergy.com
I am reluctant to leave it unattended overnight though... I'll try it again tomorrow and may get on the phone to the charger supplier. There are also many on the Victron forum that say it is a problem with the latest firmware of the charger. The supplier may be the only person locally that I know of that can rule out a fault I with the unit I have.
community.victronenergy.com
community.victronenergy.com
All Posts in Questions & Answers - VictronEnergy
Searching for 16v I came across this thread that suggested that the SmartSense battery monitor had a temperature compensation issue and hence going up to that voltage. I removed the SBS from the VE network and it dropped back down to showing 14.6v and 0A on Absorbtion. I managed to coax it into Bulk Charge mode, but its now at 14.52v and 0 A, but the SBS is showing 13.39v.
IP22 Charger charging at 16v+ - VictronEnergy
I am reluctant to leave it unattended overnight though... I'll try it again tomorrow and may get on the phone to the charger supplier. There are also many on the Victron forum that say it is a problem with the latest firmware of the charger. The supplier may be the only person locally that I know of that can rule out a fault I with the unit I have.
IP22 charger going straight to Absorption - Victron Community
IP22 / LifePo4 Compatibility question - Victron Community
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just delete the VE-smart network in the app. ( you need to delete and not just leave - as it will remember the network for next time )
the charger will run stand alone and sort out your problem.
..................
the disconnect and reboot your smart battery monitor.
then try to remake a new VE-Smart network.
+++++
you don't NEED the smart battery sensor for the charger to run, - but it does add temp data,
but again that only important if your charging in sub zero temps.
...
the charger will run stand alone and sort out your problem.
..................
the disconnect and reboot your smart battery monitor.
then try to remake a new VE-Smart network.
+++++
you don't NEED the smart battery sensor for the charger to run, - but it does add temp data,
but again that only important if your charging in sub zero temps.
...
6Legger
Member
Yes, I disconnected the VE network last night. I made sure all of the connections were severed in the application, I also uninstalled and reinstall the application, making sure any data files were wiped.
Whether it is plugged in or not, it’s not showing any amps only volts.
[a few hours later]
So. I confirmed with a multimeter that all the fuses were correct, and had the battery box fuse pulled and left out for a bit (whilst I found my multimeter) and then put back in. I did the same with the victron charger (coffee time) and when I put the fuses all back in I also did a reset on the actual charger itself.
When I plugged it all back in it started charging and took the battery up to 14.2v (yaay!) But the bluetooth wasn't working anymore. It got to 20% and then back to 1% and repeated a few times until it failed. More google fu
community.victronenergy.com
So I removed all of the pairings and removed the app again, reinstalled and it all works.
The charger charges, the app does its thing and the battery is now being charged at... Oh. Its back to 14.5v absorption charge and 0 amps. But the battery sense is now showing 14.40v on power and unplugging the charger it goes down to 14.39v It was charging at 2amps. I'll give it about 20 minutes for the battery to settle as its already dropping voltage and it needs to stabilise doesn't it.
I've not used the battery yet at an event and I've not done any testing with how long the battery lasts... But its something moving forwards. Hopefully the charger continues to work. I'll not return it just yet then....
Thanks for listen to me ramble here... I guess this is something more for a 'Victron Charger' thread than the valence battery, but. I'm here now
Whether it is plugged in or not, it’s not showing any amps only volts.
[a few hours later]
So. I confirmed with a multimeter that all the fuses were correct, and had the battery box fuse pulled and left out for a bit (whilst I found my multimeter) and then put back in. I did the same with the victron charger (coffee time) and when I put the fuses all back in I also did a reset on the actual charger itself.
When I plugged it all back in it started charging and took the battery up to 14.2v (yaay!) But the bluetooth wasn't working anymore. It got to 20% and then back to 1% and repeated a few times until it failed. More google fu
Bluetooth Connection fail at 20% - Victron Community
So I removed all of the pairings and removed the app again, reinstalled and it all works.
The charger charges, the app does its thing and the battery is now being charged at... Oh. Its back to 14.5v absorption charge and 0 amps. But the battery sense is now showing 14.40v on power and unplugging the charger it goes down to 14.39v It was charging at 2amps. I'll give it about 20 minutes for the battery to settle as its already dropping voltage and it needs to stabilise doesn't it.
I've not used the battery yet at an event and I've not done any testing with how long the battery lasts... But its something moving forwards. Hopefully the charger continues to work. I'll not return it just yet then....
Thanks for listen to me ramble here... I guess this is something more for a 'Victron Charger' thread than the valence battery, but. I'm here now
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Hi all, I have some of these batteries with really low cycle count and have the software to show their current status. They are the valence U27-12XP model and I’m looking for £375 plus postage or you could collect from Devon, U.K.
Happy to accept payment via PayPal as long as you cover the fees.
Happy to accept payment via PayPal as long as you cover the fees.
2 left and price reduced to £300 each plus postage or I might be able to deliver if I’m passing. Very low cycle count and good cell spread
Hi @Dellmassive ,The testing and BMS monitor is done, the battery looks like a good one.
here is the battery as delivered. . . . it shows 12.8V, but it actually almost flat. (cell @ 3.2v)
this is the battery BMS diagnostic lead i made up . . . . .
and this is the 150A inline power meter monitoring whats going on . . .
i used a Victron 12/15A charger on lithium mode to start charging . . . .
it maxed out the charger @ 15A until it got too hot and shut down to trickle charge . . . . !
so i added a second 15A NoCo G15000 charger, again same thing - maxed out @ 15A
i had the power monitor and the BMS was reporting a full 30A charge current going in . . . . thats all i had to hand.
The Valence U27-12XP will take a charge upto 70A !!! the these Lithium battery's are almost like a dead short on the chargers and will suck in all they can get.
the plan is to fit a Redarc BCDC1250D from @travelvolts when they arrive, which has a 50A charge capacity. (runing on the OEM 80/100A original SCR cables)
This is what we had after a few charging sessions.
all green with no faults showing.
SOC is reported @ 100% and didnt drop over night.
I've kept the charger connected and above 98% the charge current starts to reduce . . .15/12/10/8/6/5/4/2/1A . . all the way down to 0.1A
It looks like the internal BMS is now trying to "top balance" the cells around 3.4v-3.6v
one thing to note is that the battery spec calls for 14.6v for the top charge . . . .
but both chargers have 14.2v as there set Lithium program? (the Redarc shows 14.5v)
****************************************************
valence xp U27-12xp
battery specs.
Bulk 14.6v (3.65V PER CELL)
Absob 14.6v (3.65V PER CELL)
Float 13.8v (min 3.45v per cell)
C-rate. c/2 70A
*********************************************
charger specs:
Victron charge:
Li-on mode
Bulk 14.2v/15A
Absorb 14.2v/15A
Float 13.5v
******************
Noco charge
Bulk 14.2v / 15A
Absorb 14.2v / 15A
float
*************************
Redarc dc-dc charge. (bcdc1250d)
Bulk 14.5v / 50A
Absorb 14.5v / 50A
Float 13.6v
***********************
heres some pics showing battery now full at 14.1 and the two chargers i used.
*****
any questions?
*****
Can I ask you regarding charging, I have the victron 12v/15a charger as above but cannot get any more than about 13.2v into my Valence battery. I’m thinking of installing it as a replacement to my factory leisure battery under the passenger seat in my new Van but want to ensure it will be ok and I can change it to its capacity. Would a bigger charger do it, and would the van charge it safely via alternator?
Many thanks
Paul
NO - the vans Split charge relay cannot charge a lithium, especially a Valence that has no operating BMS.
you need a DC-DC charger with lithium profile.
and if you have a Vallance battery id strongly recommend you replace it with a modern lifepo4 with safety BMS. ( which the valance does not have)
the Vallance XP need external safety bits live, low temp protection, low voltage disconnect, high voltage disconnect, and a dedicated dc-dc charger's etc etc ;
the valance internal BMS has no safety features or fuses. . . its all external as part of the bus master battery pack.
plus the internal balance board only operated when the laptop is connected. . .
so your battery may have cells out of balance.
and for the valance battery, the only way to wake up the internal BMS is to connect the laptop and cable and run the valance software.
the Vallance Battery's are not recommended in 2024 unless you have a good understanding of them, how the work, and how to use them safely.
we started playing with these in 2020, and a lot has changed in the lityhium world now.
you will be abler to buy a new lithium battery now cheaper than the cost of the extra safety stuff you need to run these battery's.
if you want to run a valance XP battery, then you need to go back to the first post and read up of what they need to be run safely. - Valence U27-12XP Lifepo4 Lithium Battery -- How We Done It --
+++
back back to the battery. . . and assuming its on the bench.
what is the Victron 15A charger settings?
and what is the battery resting voltage with nothing connected?
post some pics if you can.
+++
Hi @Dellmassive ,
Thanks for the reply , sorry it’s taken me a while to come back .
I think you are likely right about the cell balance being out , I have used my battery box rarely and never really drained down the battery to a safe 11v . I re-read the whole thread . I failed to get the software working after I made the connecting leads so gave up on it that aspect . I charged it last night with my valence 12/15 set to lithium mode and kept an eye on it via the Victron app and my battery monitor .
I can’t get more than 13.45 v into this battery .
I’m going to run some devices & fridge from it to drain it down , then try re-charging from 11v .
I still like using the battery box for short trips , but a new van with a factory leisure battery has got me thinking of my options for a battery set up . I will use the Valence in my battery box only, as you say better tech is now affordable.
I will let you know how it goes , I did purchase a victron ip22 12/30, So once I have made some leads up I will blast it with that !
Thanks for the reply , sorry it’s taken me a while to come back .
I think you are likely right about the cell balance being out , I have used my battery box rarely and never really drained down the battery to a safe 11v . I re-read the whole thread . I failed to get the software working after I made the connecting leads so gave up on it that aspect . I charged it last night with my valence 12/15 set to lithium mode and kept an eye on it via the Victron app and my battery monitor .
I can’t get more than 13.45 v into this battery .
I’m going to run some devices & fridge from it to drain it down , then try re-charging from 11v .
I still like using the battery box for short trips , but a new van with a factory leisure battery has got me thinking of my options for a battery set up . I will use the Valence in my battery box only, as you say better tech is now affordable.
I will let you know how it goes , I did purchase a victron ip22 12/30, So once I have made some leads up I will blast it with that !
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